[nagdu] Guide Dogs And VA Facilities--what?!

Thu Aug 9 13:01:26 UTC 2012

I've only encountered three owner trained dogs, and they were well, though one of them probably needed a bit of polish work with temperament.  The handler recognized this, and during certain situations at the convention she and I were attending, she left the dog in the hotel room.

I just can't see going so far as to say that the owner trained dogs are going to be worse behaved and less well-trained that the program dogs.  Some handlers of program trained dogs have been just terrible, and I suspect that no matter how thorough the schools try to be, some dogs come through the program and go out into the wide, wide world less solidly trained.

At any rate, it will be interesting to see what happens.

Vanessa Lowery, LGSW
Adult and Community Services Division
Adult Services Screening Unit
410-853-3550
VLowery at dhr.state.md.us

>>> "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net> 8/9/2012 7:27 AM >>>
Vanessa,
    I'm not sure if I agree with your message completely. I have never met 
an owner-trained guide dog that was as well controlled as a program dog. 
NAGDU and the National Association of Blind veterans will work with our 
General Counsel to create a better policy for the VA.

Fraternally yours,
Marion

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Vanessa Lowery" <vlowery at dhr.state.md.us>
To: "the National Association of Guide Dog Users' 'NAGDU Mailing List" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs And VA Facilities--what?!

> OK, that was a history lesson, for sure.  Thanks, jenine.  This also tells 
> me that GdUI's leadership is aware of the same issue.
>
> But this also speaks to the concerns that we all have about service dogs, 
> be they program-trained or owner-trained.  The issue being control of the 
> dog.  Sounds like some of the owner-trained dogs, though they may perform 
> tasks, are not under good control, and that is what brought about this 
> ruling.
>
>
>
> Vanessa Lowery, LGSW
> Adult and Community Services Division
> Adult Services Screening Unit
> 410-853-3550
> VLowery at dhr.state.md.us 
>
>
>>>> "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com> 8/8/2012 3:27 PM >>>
> Buddy,
>
>
> Let me try to explain this access issue. We have been dealing with this at
> GDF and our service dog organization, America's Vetdogs, for the past
> several years.
>
> The first thing to know about any Veterans Administration facility is that
> there is no overall governing structure that covers every aspect of its
> operation. Each facility director is allowed, under federal directive, to
> establish policies and procedures according to the needs, within certain
> parameters of course, of that facility.
>
> Veterans and staff alike have a saying: "If you've been to one VA 
> facility,
> you've been to one VA facility."
>
> Although the Secretary in DC has given some general guidance, it is only
> that and each facility may establish its own rules for access.
>
> Remember, Veterans Administration facilities are federal and do not fall
> under the ADA. They fall under the Rehabilitation Act and even more
> specifically, under these guidelines established by the Secretary of
> Veterans Affairs.
>
> As the popularity of service dogs to assist with many disabling conditions
> has risen, a number of people have owner trained pets or acquired dogs not
> suitable for the work. These people know that their dogs are covered under
> the ADA and truly do believe that this coverage extends to the VA system.
> Just as with the general public, when any dog designated as a service 
> animal
> does not behave properly, disrupts activities or poses a danger to people,
> it can be removed from the facility. This is true with the VA as well, but
> as with the general public, the VA has chosen to use a wide ranging
> punishment for a very specific issue. We receive calls at least once a 
> week
> from VA facilities asking how to ban dogs who attack staff and other 
> service
> dogs. According to the VA staff calling, most of these dogs are owner or
> privately trained. Some, however, as we point out, are indeed trained by
> accredited facilities. We advise the VA staff to first work with the
> individual to alert him/her that the dog's behavior is not appropriate and
> if it continues with no attempt to correct it, the dog can be banned from
> the facility. We also refer them to their facility's policy on service
> animal access, which may or may not state this.
>
> Unfortunately, many veterans are also using service dogs as protection
> devices for personal safety which is not at all a function of the work
> service dogs are generally expected to do and is not allowed under the ADA
> or other access laws.
>
> In order to establish some kind of order in who is bringing dogs into VA
> facilities, many facilities have decided to adopt the standard that any
> service animal entering the facility must have been trained by an
> organization with either Assistance Dogs International (ADI) or
> International Guide Dog Federation (IGDF) credentials. Handlers who cannot
> show ID with the logos of either of these organizations and an associated
> training provider will not be allowed to take their service or guide dogs
> into the VA facility.
>
> You're probably thinking that people can just get these logos on line and
> make up ID cards. They could but ADI and IGDF are extremely strict about 
> who
> and where their logos may be used and will seek whatever legal remedies
> appropriate when they discover misuse of their logos. If you have a guide
> dog school ID and your school is accredited by IGDF, chances are it bares
> that logo.
>
> This VA access standard generally has not touched the guide dog handlers
> much in the past but increasingly, the rule is being enforced more 
> strictly
> so that guide dogs, once held separately by the VA in general in terms of
> access and provision of benefits, are now being included in a general
> service animal category and more closely scrutinized.
>
> This is truly one of those pendulum swings in access rights that happens
> when things get too out of control for an entity. We saw this in the July
> 2010 revision of the ADA's service animal definition and standards. The VA
> is following that general line with these regulations.
>
> I will not go into whether I think this is right or wrong as that is a 
> whole
> other topic, but just to let you know, it is out there and it does affect
> many people seeking services from the VA.
>
> There are efforts in Congress already to change this guidance but some of
> those efforts are based on incorrect information and assumptions.
>
> What can NAGDU do about this situation? One thing you can do that would be
> very helpful for those of us in organizations that work directly with the 
> VA
> for our handlers is to ask your handlers who are using VA facilities, 
> either
> as veterans or dependants, whether or not their access with their dogs has
> been questioned, challenged or denied within the past year. If so, please
> let me know privately.
>
> As I said, each VA facility is its own entity regarding how strictly the
> guidelines for service animals are enforced. Some facilities allow pets 
> and
> therapy animals without question while others are extremely strict about
> showing ID for the service animal each time the person comes to the
> facility. It all depends on the experiences and attitude of the facility
> director and staff.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Jenine Stanley
> jeninems at wowway.com 
> http://www.twitter.com/jeninems 
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Buddy Brannan
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 1:07 PM
> To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU Mailing List
> Subject: [nagdu] Guide Dogs And VA Facilities--what?!
>
> Someone just brought the following to my attention. What does this mean 
> for
> owner/trained guide and service dogs? Moreover, what does this mean for 
> the
> future of what constitutes a service dog?
>
> From
> http://thomas.loc.gov/home/gpoxmlc112/h1627_enr.xml#toc-H547AD04B80A24ADCBB0 
> 2C96CBF22D067
>
> SEC. 109. USE OF SERVICE DOGS ON PROPERTY OF THE DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS
> AFFAIRS.
> Section 901 is amended by adding at the end the following new subsection:
>
>
> "(f)(1) The Secretary may not prohibit the use of a covered service dog in
> any facility or on any property of the Department or in any facility or on
> any property that receives funding from the Secretary.
>
> "(2) For purposes of this subsection, a covered service dog is a service 
> dog
> that has been trained by an entity that is accredited by an appropriate
> accrediting body that evaluates and accredits organizations which train
> guide or service dogs.".
>
>
>
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>
>
>
>
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