[nagdu] My Apologies!

Thu Aug 9 19:20:00 UTC 2012

Ah Marion,

Is this what happens just after a birthday?  (grin)

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Marion Gwizdala
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 11:10 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: [nagdu] My Apologies!

        My message did not come out the way I meant it to read! What a
difference a word makes! I meant to write, "I have never met an
owner-trained dog that was *not* as well controlled as a program dog!" The
way I originally wrote this message was cumbersome, so i editted it and
really screwed up the meaning. In these days of political attack ads, I sure
hope my words don't get disseminated far and wide, giving the impression I
look upon owner-traners poorly. Those who really know my view on this issue
will attest to the fact that I am fully supportive of owner-trainers! Sorry
'bout that, Chief!

Fraternally yours,
Marion

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pawpower Creations" <pawpower at cox.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs And VA Facilities--what?!

> Marion, I have never met a program trained dog that was as well trained 
> and
> well controlled as either mine or Rox'E'S owner trained dogs.  In fact 
> most
> of the owner trainers that we know have had awesomely well behaved dogs 
> and
> I would stack them up against any program trained dog any day of the week.
>
> That is not to say that program trained dogs are not well controlled or 
> well
> trained, it is just that I haven't met any, or I should say I have met 
> very
> few which I could call well controlled.  I just don't think it is fair to
> lump all owner trained dogs in to a group simply because the experiences 
> you
> have had with them have been less than stellar.
> JMHO
>
> Woofs and wags from the pawpower pack,
>
> Queen Bristol, Mill'E to the max, Rudy the dude in spirit,  baby girl 
> Laveau
> and Bayou Baylee.
>
> Pawpower Creations,  Products designed with you and your canine in mind.
> Bob Blackner/Rox'e Homstad,
> 504-312-2609
> pawpower at cox.net
> www.pawpowercreations.com
>
> And be sure and visit bayou Baylee's blog at:
> www.pawpowercreations.com/wordpress
> See you there.
>
>
> I asked for strength that I might rear her perfectly;
> I was given weakness that I might feed her more treats.
>
> I asked for good health that I might rest easy;
> I was given a "special needs" dog that I might know nurturing.
>
> I asked for an obedient dog that I might feel proud;
> I was given stubbornness that I might feel humble.
>
> I asked for compliance that I might feel masterful;
> I was given a clown that I might laugh.
>
> I asked for a companion that I might not feel lonely;
> I was given a best friend that I would feel loved.
>
> I got nothing I asked for,
> But everything that I needed.
>
>
>
> Author unknown
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Marion Gwizdala
> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 6:28 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs And VA Facilities--what?!
>
> Vanessa,
>    I'm not sure if I agree with your message completely. I have never met
> an owner-trained guide dog that was as well controlled as a program dog.
> NAGDU and the National Association of Blind veterans will work with our
> General Counsel to create a better policy for the VA.
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Vanessa Lowery" <vlowery at dhr.state.md.us>
> To: "the National Association of Guide Dog Users' 'NAGDU Mailing List"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 3:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs And VA Facilities--what?!
>
>
>> OK, that was a history lesson, for sure.  Thanks, jenine.  This also 
>> tells
>
>> me that GdUI's leadership is aware of the same issue.
>>
>> But this also speaks to the concerns that we all have about service dogs,
>> be they program-trained or owner-trained.  The issue being control of the
>> dog.  Sounds like some of the owner-trained dogs, though they may perform
>> tasks, are not under good control, and that is what brought about this
>> ruling.
>>
>>
>>
>> Vanessa Lowery, LGSW
>> Adult and Community Services Division
>> Adult Services Screening Unit
>> 410-853-3550
>> VLowery at dhr.state.md.us
>>
>>
>>>>> "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com> 8/8/2012 3:27 PM >>>
>> Buddy,
>>
>>
>> Let me try to explain this access issue. We have been dealing with this 
>> at
>> GDF and our service dog organization, America's Vetdogs, for the past
>> several years.
>>
>> The first thing to know about any Veterans Administration facility is 
>> that
>> there is no overall governing structure that covers every aspect of its
>> operation. Each facility director is allowed, under federal directive, to
>> establish policies and procedures according to the needs, within certain
>> parameters of course, of that facility.
>>
>> Veterans and staff alike have a saying: "If you've been to one VA
>> facility,
>> you've been to one VA facility."
>>
>> Although the Secretary in DC has given some general guidance, it is only
>> that and each facility may establish its own rules for access.
>>
>> Remember, Veterans Administration facilities are federal and do not fall
>> under the ADA. They fall under the Rehabilitation Act and even more
>> specifically, under these guidelines established by the Secretary of
>> Veterans Affairs.
>>
>> As the popularity of service dogs to assist with many disabling 
>> conditions
>> has risen, a number of people have owner trained pets or acquired dogs 
>> not
>> suitable for the work. These people know that their dogs are covered 
>> under
>> the ADA and truly do believe that this coverage extends to the VA system.
>> Just as with the general public, when any dog designated as a service
>> animal
>> does not behave properly, disrupts activities or poses a danger to 
>> people,
>> it can be removed from the facility. This is true with the VA as well, 
>> but
>> as with the general public, the VA has chosen to use a wide ranging
>> punishment for a very specific issue. We receive calls at least once a
>> week
>> from VA facilities asking how to ban dogs who attack staff and other
>> service
>> dogs. According to the VA staff calling, most of these dogs are owner or
>> privately trained. Some, however, as we point out, are indeed trained by
>> accredited facilities. We advise the VA staff to first work with the
>> individual to alert him/her that the dog's behavior is not appropriate 
>> and
>> if it continues with no attempt to correct it, the dog can be banned from
>> the facility. We also refer them to their facility's policy on service
>> animal access, which may or may not state this.
>>
>> Unfortunately, many veterans are also using service dogs as protection
>> devices for personal safety which is not at all a function of the work
>> service dogs are generally expected to do and is not allowed under the 
>> ADA
>> or other access laws.
>>
>> In order to establish some kind of order in who is bringing dogs into VA
>> facilities, many facilities have decided to adopt the standard that any
>> service animal entering the facility must have been trained by an
>> organization with either Assistance Dogs International (ADI) or
>> International Guide Dog Federation (IGDF) credentials. Handlers who 
>> cannot
>> show ID with the logos of either of these organizations and an associated
>> training provider will not be allowed to take their service or guide dogs
>> into the VA facility.
>>
>> You're probably thinking that people can just get these logos on line and
>> make up ID cards. They could but ADI and IGDF are extremely strict about
>> who
>> and where their logos may be used and will seek whatever legal remedies
>> appropriate when they discover misuse of their logos. If you have a guide
>> dog school ID and your school is accredited by IGDF, chances are it bares
>> that logo.
>>
>> This VA access standard generally has not touched the guide dog handlers
>> much in the past but increasingly, the rule is being enforced more
>> strictly
>> so that guide dogs, once held separately by the VA in general in terms of
>> access and provision of benefits, are now being included in a general
>> service animal category and more closely scrutinized.
>>
>> This is truly one of those pendulum swings in access rights that happens
>> when things get too out of control for an entity. We saw this in the July
>> 2010 revision of the ADA's service animal definition and standards. The 
>> VA
>> is following that general line with these regulations.
>>
>> I will not go into whether I think this is right or wrong as that is a
>> whole
>> other topic, but just to let you know, it is out there and it does affect
>> many people seeking services from the VA.
>>
>> There are efforts in Congress already to change this guidance but some of
>> those efforts are based on incorrect information and assumptions.
>>
>> What can NAGDU do about this situation? One thing you can do that would 
>> be
>> very helpful for those of us in organizations that work directly with the
>> VA
>> for our handlers is to ask your handlers who are using VA facilities,
>> either
>> as veterans or dependants, whether or not their access with their dogs 
>> has
>> been questioned, challenged or denied within the past year. If so, please
>> let me know privately.
>>
>> As I said, each VA facility is its own entity regarding how strictly the
>> guidelines for service animals are enforced. Some facilities allow pets
>> and
>> therapy animals without question while others are extremely strict about
>> showing ID for the service animal each time the person comes to the
>> facility. It all depends on the experiences and attitude of the facility
>> director and staff.
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>> Jenine Stanley
>> jeninems at wowway.com
>> http://www.twitter.com/jeninems
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Buddy Brannan
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 1:07 PM
>> To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU Mailing List
>> Subject: [nagdu] Guide Dogs And VA Facilities--what?!
>>
>> Someone just brought the following to my attention. What does this mean
>> for
>> owner/trained guide and service dogs? Moreover, what does this mean for
>> the
>> future of what constitutes a service dog?
>>
>> From
>>
>
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/gpoxmlc112/h1627_enr.xml#toc-H547AD04B80A24ADCBB0
>> 2C96CBF22D067
>>
>> SEC. 109. USE OF SERVICE DOGS ON PROPERTY OF THE DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS
>> AFFAIRS.
>> Section 901 is amended by adding at the end the following new subsection:
>>
>>
>> "(f)(1) The Secretary may not prohibit the use of a covered service dog 
>> in
>> any facility or on any property of the Department or in any facility or 
>> on
>> any property that receives funding from the Secretary.
>>
>> "(2) For purposes of this subsection, a covered service dog is a service
>> dog
>> that has been trained by an entity that is accredited by an appropriate
>> accrediting body that evaluates and accredits organizations which train
>> guide or service dogs.".
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>
>>
>>
>>
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