[nagdu] Meet My Girls

Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com
Fri Aug 10 18:01:19 UTC 2012


Tracy, I suspect you're right on the boost to her families.
How sad though if that was the case as she also has the right to live her life on her terms and not based on what others will think. So if it was more doable to have a driver and she didn't use it for fear of what people will think, that's also quite sad.


-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 1:56 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Meet My Girls

I wondered why she didn't hire a driver.  Maybe it wasn't an option.
Maybe her employer wouldn't spring for it, and she couldn't afford it on
her salary.
Or maybe it was just expected that blind teachers would figure it out.
I think I would hire a driver to save time, but I imagine it was a big
boost to the families she served, to see that a blind person was not
delivered to the door by a sighted person, but was out walking and
catching public transit.
I wonder too if buses ran better back then.  Maybe there were more buses
and fewer cars.
Tracy

>         Just checked with NLS and Meet My Girls is also in Braille.
> Book sounds interesting. I wonder if she took the bus and walked because
> she didn't know hiring a driver was an option?
> Traffic paterns were different then. We used to live in a house built in
> the 1940's. When it was built, the neighborhood was very upscale and
> pedestrian friendly. That changed beginning in the 1960's with a couple
> heavy traffic roads that bisected the once-walkable neighborhood.
> Also, she may have been socialized to believe that the dogs needed all
> kinds of work.
> And I'll confess to getting a bit teary when I read Tracy's bit about the
> woman knowing this would be her last dog. Thanks for the heads-up, I'll
> probably cry when I read this.
> I totally lost my s*** when Marley died at the end of Marley And Me.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Lyn Gwizdak
> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 4:05 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] My Apologies!
>
> Hahahahaha, Marion!
> I know you support the owner-trainers here!  Now, don't go pulling any
> "Romneys" here!  He said California was like Greece with the economic
> problems - and had to back peddle a bit. LOL!
>
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 11:10 AM
> Subject: [nagdu] My Apologies!
>
>
>>        My message did not come out the way I meant it to read! What a
>> difference a word makes! I meant to write, "I have never met an
>> owner-trained dog that was *not* as well controlled as a program dog!"
>> The
>> way I originally wrote this message was cumbersome, so i editted it and
>> really screwed up the meaning. In these days of political attack ads, I
>> sure hope my words don't get disseminated far and wide, giving the
>> impression I look upon owner-traners poorly. Those who really know my
>> view
>> on this issue will attest to the fact that I am fully supportive of
>> owner-trainers! Sorry 'bout that, Chief!
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Pawpower Creations" <pawpower at cox.net>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 8:56 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs And VA Facilities--what?!
>>
>>
>>> Marion, I have never met a program trained dog that was as well trained
>>> and
>>> well controlled as either mine or Rox'E'S owner trained dogs.  In fact
>>> most
>>> of the owner trainers that we know have had awesomely well behaved dogs
>>> and
>>> I would stack them up against any program trained dog any day of the
>>> week.
>>>
>>> That is not to say that program trained dogs are not well controlled or
>>> well
>>> trained, it is just that I haven't met any, or I should say I have met
>>> very
>>> few which I could call well controlled.  I just don't think it is fair
>>> to
>>> lump all owner trained dogs in to a group simply because the
>>> experiences
>>> you
>>> have had with them have been less than stellar.
>>> JMHO
>>>
>>> Woofs and wags from the pawpower pack,
>>>
>>> Queen Bristol, Mill'E to the max, Rudy the dude in spirit,  baby girl
>>> Laveau
>>> and Bayou Baylee.
>>>
>>> Pawpower Creations,  Products designed with you and your canine in
>>> mind.
>>> Bob Blackner/Rox'e Homstad,
>>> 504-312-2609
>>> pawpower at cox.net
>>> www.pawpowercreations.com
>>>
>>> And be sure and visit bayou Baylee's blog at:
>>> www.pawpowercreations.com/wordpress
>>> See you there.
>>>
>>>
>>> I asked for strength that I might rear her perfectly;
>>> I was given weakness that I might feed her more treats.
>>>
>>> I asked for good health that I might rest easy;
>>> I was given a "special needs" dog that I might know nurturing.
>>>
>>> I asked for an obedient dog that I might feel proud;
>>> I was given stubbornness that I might feel humble.
>>>
>>> I asked for compliance that I might feel masterful;
>>> I was given a clown that I might laugh.
>>>
>>> I asked for a companion that I might not feel lonely;
>>> I was given a best friend that I would feel loved.
>>>
>>> I got nothing I asked for,
>>> But everything that I needed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Author unknown
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Marion Gwizdala
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 6:28 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs And VA Facilities--what?!
>>>
>>> Vanessa,
>>>    I'm not sure if I agree with your message completely. I have never
>>> met
>>> an owner-trained guide dog that was as well controlled as a program
>>> dog.
>>> NAGDU and the National Association of Blind veterans will work with our
>>> General Counsel to create a better policy for the VA.
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Vanessa Lowery" <vlowery at dhr.state.md.us>
>>> To: "the National Association of Guide Dog Users' 'NAGDU Mailing List"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 3:40 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs And VA Facilities--what?!
>>>
>>>
>>>> OK, that was a history lesson, for sure.  Thanks, jenine.  This also
>>>> tells
>>>
>>>> me that GdUI's leadership is aware of the same issue.
>>>>
>>>> But this also speaks to the concerns that we all have about service
>>>> dogs,
>>>> be they program-trained or owner-trained.  The issue being control of
>>>> the
>>>> dog.  Sounds like some of the owner-trained dogs, though they may
>>>> perform
>>>> tasks, are not under good control, and that is what brought about this
>>>> ruling.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Vanessa Lowery, LGSW
>>>> Adult and Community Services Division
>>>> Adult Services Screening Unit
>>>> 410-853-3550
>>>> VLowery at dhr.state.md.us
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com> 8/8/2012 3:27 PM >>>
>>>> Buddy,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Let me try to explain this access issue. We have been dealing with
>>>> this
>>>> at
>>>> GDF and our service dog organization, America's Vetdogs, for the past
>>>> several years.
>>>>
>>>> The first thing to know about any Veterans Administration facility is
>>>> that
>>>> there is no overall governing structure that covers every aspect of
>>>> its
>>>> operation. Each facility director is allowed, under federal directive,
>>>> to
>>>> establish policies and procedures according to the needs, within
>>>> certain
>>>> parameters of course, of that facility.
>>>>
>>>> Veterans and staff alike have a saying: "If you've been to one VA
>>>> facility,
>>>> you've been to one VA facility."
>>>>
>>>> Although the Secretary in DC has given some general guidance, it is
>>>> only
>>>> that and each facility may establish its own rules for access.
>>>>
>>>> Remember, Veterans Administration facilities are federal and do not
>>>> fall
>>>> under the ADA. They fall under the Rehabilitation Act and even more
>>>> specifically, under these guidelines established by the Secretary of
>>>> Veterans Affairs.
>>>>
>>>> As the popularity of service dogs to assist with many disabling
>>>> conditions
>>>> has risen, a number of people have owner trained pets or acquired dogs
>>>> not
>>>> suitable for the work. These people know that their dogs are covered
>>>> under
>>>> the ADA and truly do believe that this coverage extends to the VA
>>>> system.
>>>> Just as with the general public, when any dog designated as a service
>>>> animal
>>>> does not behave properly, disrupts activities or poses a danger to
>>>> people,
>>>> it can be removed from the facility. This is true with the VA as well,
>>>> but
>>>> as with the general public, the VA has chosen to use a wide ranging
>>>> punishment for a very specific issue. We receive calls at least once a
>>>> week
>>>> from VA facilities asking how to ban dogs who attack staff and other
>>>> service
>>>> dogs. According to the VA staff calling, most of these dogs are owner
>>>> or
>>>> privately trained. Some, however, as we point out, are indeed trained
>>>> by
>>>> accredited facilities. We advise the VA staff to first work with the
>>>> individual to alert him/her that the dog's behavior is not appropriate
>>>> and
>>>> if it continues with no attempt to correct it, the dog can be banned
>>>> from
>>>> the facility. We also refer them to their facility's policy on service
>>>> animal access, which may or may not state this.
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, many veterans are also using service dogs as protection
>>>> devices for personal safety which is not at all a function of the work
>>>> service dogs are generally expected to do and is not allowed under the
>>>> ADA
>>>> or other access laws.
>>>>
>>>> In order to establish some kind of order in who is bringing dogs into
>>>> VA
>>>> facilities, many facilities have decided to adopt the standard that
>>>> any
>>>> service animal entering the facility must have been trained by an
>>>> organization with either Assistance Dogs International (ADI) or
>>>> International Guide Dog Federation (IGDF) credentials. Handlers who
>>>> cannot
>>>> show ID with the logos of either of these organizations and an
>>>> associated
>>>> training provider will not be allowed to take their service or guide
>>>> dogs
>>>> into the VA facility.
>>>>
>>>> You're probably thinking that people can just get these logos on line
>>>> and
>>>> make up ID cards. They could but ADI and IGDF are extremely strict
>>>> about
>>>> who
>>>> and where their logos may be used and will seek whatever legal
>>>> remedies
>>>> appropriate when they discover misuse of their logos. If you have a
>>>> guide
>>>> dog school ID and your school is accredited by IGDF, chances are it
>>>> bares
>>>> that logo.
>>>>
>>>> This VA access standard generally has not touched the guide dog
>>>> handlers
>>>> much in the past but increasingly, the rule is being enforced more
>>>> strictly
>>>> so that guide dogs, once held separately by the VA in general in terms
>>>> of
>>>> access and provision of benefits, are now being included in a general
>>>> service animal category and more closely scrutinized.
>>>>
>>>> This is truly one of those pendulum swings in access rights that
>>>> happens
>>>> when things get too out of control for an entity. We saw this in the
>>>> July
>>>> 2010 revision of the ADA's service animal definition and standards.
>>>> The
>>>> VA
>>>> is following that general line with these regulations.
>>>>
>>>> I will not go into whether I think this is right or wrong as that is a
>>>> whole
>>>> other topic, but just to let you know, it is out there and it does
>>>> affect
>>>> many people seeking services from the VA.
>>>>
>>>> There are efforts in Congress already to change this guidance but some
>>>> of
>>>> those efforts are based on incorrect information and assumptions.
>>>>
>>>> What can NAGDU do about this situation? One thing you can do that
>>>> would
>>>> be
>>>> very helpful for those of us in organizations that work directly with
>>>> the
>>>> VA
>>>> for our handlers is to ask your handlers who are using VA facilities,
>>>> either
>>>> as veterans or dependants, whether or not their access with their dogs
>>>> has
>>>> been questioned, challenged or denied within the past year. If so,
>>>> please
>>>> let me know privately.
>>>>
>>>> As I said, each VA facility is its own entity regarding how strictly
>>>> the
>>>> guidelines for service animals are enforced. Some facilities allow
>>>> pets
>>>> and
>>>> therapy animals without question while others are extremely strict
>>>> about
>>>> showing ID for the service animal each time the person comes to the
>>>> facility. It all depends on the experiences and attitude of the
>>>> facility
>>>> director and staff.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>
>>>> Jenine Stanley
>>>> jeninems at wowway.com
>>>> http://www.twitter.com/jeninems
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Buddy Brannan
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 1:07 PM
>>>> To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU Mailing List
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Guide Dogs And VA Facilities--what?!
>>>>
>>>> Someone just brought the following to my attention. What does this
>>>> mean
>>>> for
>>>> owner/trained guide and service dogs? Moreover, what does this mean
>>>> for
>>>> the
>>>> future of what constitutes a service dog?
>>>>
>>>> From
>>>>
>>> http://thomas.loc.gov/home/gpoxmlc112/h1627_enr.xml#toc-H547AD04B80A24ADCBB0
>>>> 2C96CBF22D067
>>>>
>>>> SEC. 109. USE OF SERVICE DOGS ON PROPERTY OF THE DEPARTMENT OF
>>>> VETERANS
>>>> AFFAIRS.
>>>> Section 901 is amended by adding at the end the following new
>>>> subsection:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "(f)(1) The Secretary may not prohibit the use of a covered service
>>>> dog
>>>> in
>>>> any facility or on any property of the Department or in any facility
>>>> or
>>>> on
>>>> any property that receives funding from the Secretary.
>>>>
>>>> "(2) For purposes of this subsection, a covered service dog is a
>>>> service
>>>> dog
>>>> that has been trained by an entity that is accredited by an
>>>> appropriate
>>>> accrediting body that evaluates and accredits organizations which
>>>> train
>>>> guide or service dogs.".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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