[nagdu] guide in college was Lots of Questions

Steven Johnson blinddog3 at charter.net
Mon Aug 27 12:02:58 UTC 2012 

Julie et al,
I actually could make a difference as colleges would not necessarily be
governed under the ADA, but rather the Rehab act of 1973.  As long as that
entity received or was receiving some form of federal funding support, e.g.
federal financial aid, and to the best of my understanding, there are only a
couple of colleges across the nation of the over 2000 that receive
absolutely no federal funding of any kind, it could then be a possible
issue, but as you eluded to, there is a lot of unknowns here.

Just my opinion based on limited info,

Steve


-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Julie J.
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 6:53 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] guide in college was Lots of Questions

Ava,

I don't think the college was lawful in refusing you the ability to work
your dog to classes.  I don't think it makes any difference that the college
was private.  Unless perhaps this occurred before the ADA?  
Perhaps Marion or Steve will give their take on this.

Also it makes absolutely no difference who trained the dog in regard to
access.  I think you already know that, but maybe you didn't then.

If it helps I have had my guide at public schools, a private college, in the
courthouse daily and in a courtroom.  No one had a problem with him in any
of those places.

Julie



On 8/27/2012 5:10 AM, avapup.7 at gmail.com wrote:
> I had my first guide dog while in law school, and she was allowed to come
with me to study on weekends, but during the week, the disability office
ruled she'd be too distracting to other students, although the dean was in
favor of allowing Jet to go to classes with me. But, he disabilities office
overruled the dean. I was like, what? These are future lawyers and you think
having a quiet dog under the desk in class would distract them? What are
they going to be like in practice??
>
> Anyway, by the time the ruling came down from the disability services
office -- it was a private school -- it was the second half of my third
year, and I didn't want to press matters with them. I just wanted to
graduate! So Jet and I came in on weekends and like so many others, we
picked a spot in the library to study. Well, I studied, Jet lay down on the
floor under the table and kept her usual sheepdog vigil. She rarely slept
while out working, even while lying down ( Jet was a Rough Collie -- all
that fur!! Beautiful but wow. ). She did like to snore during movies LOL!
She'd fall over onto her side in front of my seat in her sleep and
inevitably begin snoring.
>
> I think had I come into the school with a guide the first year, they'd
have allowed her. But because suddenly she seemed to arrive in my life
toward the end of school, they were reluctant to have her in classes. Plus,
Jet was owner-trained, and by that time, I only needed a guide under certain
lighting circumstances ( I am night-blind and legally-blind in poor lighting
situations, residual effects from a 2001 head injury ), but did/do need a
service dog under all conditions for balance and hearing help. So we weren't
a traditional, school-trained team; we were a team like they'd never before
encountered. Some students mostly avoided me when Jet was with me, though a
few who were in the Animal Rights Law group with me were absolutely enamored
with Jet, and thought it was awful she couldn't come to classes with me.
They offered to petition the disability office for me, even.  These were the
people who always has petting privileges haha. Jet loved them! Sometimes
we'd sit outside the library and study, me in a chair in the hallway, Jet
tucked between my chair and the table, which was when Jet got the most
attention. And it was all positive! People passing would stop to talk, ask
if they could pet Miss Jet, and ask about why I had her. When my
then-boyfriend would pick us up, he also would often say he couldn't figure
out why she wasn't allowed in class.
>
> That was just my experience, being in school with a guide. Had it been a
public school, I think they'd have let her come to class with me. But they'd
never had any sort of guide or service dog in their classes before, and I
believe they just didn't want to change. And I was about to graduate, and
didn't want to cause problems. It was, after all, a private school, and they
were entitled to their policy.
>
> Ava and Cocoa and Jet ( in spirit since 1.10.2010 - I miss you )
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 26, 2012, at 4:23 PM, "Lyn Gwizdak"<linda.gwizdak at cox.net>  wrote:
>
>> Good advice, Julie M.
>>
>> Lizzy, another VERY important thing is that you must be a person who will
not cave into doing things that will cause problems with your dog.  things
like not correcting because of "peer pressure" from the other students.  I
know that it's hard not to do that when you're a kid - hey I was a kid once
a long time ago! LOL!  I have seen this problem even in a 58 year old man -
he didn't want to correct his dog for fear of public disapporval.  He had
problems with the dog for the life of the relationship with the dog.  He got
a new dog last winter and he's learned his lesson.
>>
>> You have to be firm with people and if they don't like it that you do
what you were taught at guide dog school, well tough, suck it up, get over
yourselves, get a life - whatever you want to tell them!  This is AFTER you
educate them as to WHY you do what you do with your dog and the fact you
aren't being mean because people can't pet, call the dog, feed it stuff from
the cafeteria, etc.  It is foremost YOUR SAFETY that counts.
>>
>> Good luck with your new dog.  I got my first dog after two years of
college and I was 22 years old.  While I was in high school, my vision was
still fairly good and I rode my bike to school.  I'm on my 8th dog now as I
am almost 62 years old now.
>>
>> Landon and I do pet assisted therapy with our local Humane Society and we
enjoy it alot.  Landon is a red Lab/Golden cross from The Seeing Eye and he
is almost 7 years old now - wow, time flies when you're having fun! LOL!  In
addition to the pet therapy, Landon and I are active at our local blind
center, LGBT community stuff, and Democratic club.  We live in San Diego.
>>
>> Welcome to the list.  Enjoy and don't forget - you can pick our brains
all you want!
>>
>> Lyn and Landon
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie 
>> McGinnity"<kaybaycar at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
>> Users"<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 12:12 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lots of Questions
>>
>>
>>> Hi Lizzy.
>>>
>>> I received my dog while I was still in high school.  I went to 
>>> Guiding Eyes for the Blind the Summer before my senior year.  Like 
>>> you, I lived in the suburbs and took a rather difficult course load.  
>>> I took five AP courses my senior year.  It worked out for me because 
>>> I went to a big high school and was involved in a lot of various
activities.
>>>
>>> I think the important thing to remember is that high school is a 
>>> difficult environment for a dog, not impossible by any means, but 
>>> the food and gumb on the floor, the kids, and the constant activity 
>>> will make it an environment filled with distractions.  As long as 
>>> you listen to the instruction given by your school, I'm sure you'll 
>>> do fine.  Do obedience every day, and spend time on those issues 
>>> your dog needs to work on.  For example, my dog was very eistracted by
food.
>>> This was before we went to high school.  But we worked and worked on 
>>> it over the Summer, and now she behaves quite nicely around food for 
>>> the most part.
>>>
>>> As long as you keep your dog on a good schedule in high school and 
>>> give it enough work outside of school as well as inside school, you 
>>> will probably do well.  Also, you have to decide how you want to 
>>> handle the other students' interaction with the dog.  I simply stood 
>>> up on the first day of school and introduced my dog and told 
>>> everyone that she could not be petted or talked to because she is 
>>> working.  The teachers helped me inforce these rules, and it worked 
>>> out well.  I can't say I had one problem.  It helped that I had 
>>> friends who would tell off anyone who was illegally petting my dog.  
>>> :)
>>>
>>> Please feel free to email me off list with any questions.  I think 
>>> your situation is rather close to what mine was.
>>>
>>> On 8/25/12, lizzy<lizzym0827 at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> My name is Lizzy and I am a high school junior living in the 
>>>> suburbs of Pennsylvania.  This fall I will be applying to a few 
>>>> guide dog schools in the hopes of attending one in the summer of 
>>>> 2013.  I am posting here to ask for your opinion and advice.  I 
>>>> have done a good amount of research on the schools but now I need 
>>>> more subjective information so that I can be sure to make the right 
>>>> decision next summer.  I know that most schools are less likely to 
>>>> give a high school student a guide dog, but from talking to 
>>>> different staff, a few guide dog handlers and my O&  M instructor I 
>>>> think I would be a good candidate.  Here are my
>>>> questions:
>>>> Have any of you had dog guides in high school? If so, what were 
>>>> some of the benefits/struggles?
>>>> Which schools are more likely to give guides to high school 
>>>> students?
>>>> Will the fact that I live in the suburbs effect me in any way?
>>>> (Ex: Getting in to a school, needing to go to the city more often
>>>> etc)
>>>> How easy/hard is it to take care of a dog and take a challenging 
>>>> course load (I'm in three AP's this year and hopefully will be 
>>>> taking more during my senior year)?
>>>> Can you give me any general advice that you think will be helpful 
>>>> in terms of saving up money, preparing my family etc.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Lizzy
>>>> P.S.  I've already spoken to administration at my school and I will 
>>>> be giving a presentation on the first day (next year) for all of 
>>>> the students.  Yes, I know, I like to be prepared.  :)
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> l.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Julie McG
>>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the 
>>> Blind of Missouri recording secretary, Missouri Association of Guide 
>>> dog Users President, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the 
>>> Blind
>>>
>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that 
>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal 
>>> life."
>>> John 3:16
>>>
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