[nagdu] Working a dog beyond where others think it should have beenretired; was Why so hard?

Fri Aug 31 18:23:10 UTC 2012

These are all good points in this thread.  It seems that people are more 
sensitized these days about what animals experience.  Probably, in Morris 
Frank's time when he carried Buddy up airplane steps, people didn't get so 
excited about something like that.  But they do now.  Look how they act when 
they see us correct our dogs!

I don't know the woman's situation but I think it looks really bad to see an 
animal dragging itself up bus steps. Seeing that sure gives PETA and others 
ammunition against using guide dogs or horses.  Like it or not, it's the 
reality of the situation today.

Personally, for me, and my opinion only, I think these dogs should get a 
decent retirement and have the opportunity to enjoy some retirement life 
after working so hard for us.  In today's world, there's so much stuff to 
stress both our dogs and us for that matter.  Personally, I will work a dog 
as long as it wants to work and as long as it has decent health - breathing, 
walking, and climbing stairs.  JMO.

We can speculate all we want on other's choices and decisions, but seeing a 
service dog struggling up bus steps looks bad no matter what reason it is 
happening.

Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ann Edie" <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 9:03 AM
Subject: [nagdu] Working a dog beyond where others think it should have 
beenretired; was Why so hard?

> Hi, All,
>
> Since we're talking about working dogs beyond the point where those 
> outside
> of the team think it is obvious that the dog should be retired, I just
> wanted to remind folks of something I heard a while ago--that is, that 
> good
> old Morris Frank was seen carrying his Buddy up the steps onto an airplane
> because the dog could no longer navigate steps independently.  This may 
> have
> been the first time a guide dog was allowed to ride in the cabin of an
> airplane with its handler, so it was probably quite an historic event. 
> But
> I don't think anyone got mad at Morris Frank for working the dog to death.
>
> Best,
> Ann
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 7:13 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why so hard?
>
> Lynn
> Could be lots of things.
> She could have gotten the dog at a time in her life when life was great.
> Then things went downhill and she just for her own reasons couldn't 
> separate
> the dog's health from the past.
> Maybe she was worried she couldn't or wouldn't be able to get another dog.
> Maybe she was worried about the time away needed to get another dog.
> Could be anything.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Lyn Gwizdak
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 6:01 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why so hard?
>
> This person was an employee at a blind center and i didn't have much
> interaction with her.  I think people were mad at her because she worked 
> her
> dog for so long and it had trouble getting up the bus steps.  It looked
> pathetic and it looked like a person working the dog to death.  I think
> people had tried to talk to her about it before they got mad at her.
>
> Curious but not critical: what could be the issue if it wasn't the dog? 
> To
> me, the issue seemed to be one of the lady not wanting to stop working the
> dog.  The people who were mad at her were people who believed that our 
> dogs
> deserve a decent retirement as they get old.  Kind of the same thing when
> someone will let a sick pet suffer even after it is clear that the kindest
> thing would be to euthanize it - they just can't let go.
>
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 8:11 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why so hard?
>
>
>>
>> Lynn,
>> In the case of your friend working the very old dog, I can assure you
>> the dog wasn't the issue. There were other things she was holding
>> onto, the dog was just a symbol.
>> Why was everybody pissed at her? Would have been far kinder to have
>> reached out and treated her with kindness then with anger.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Lyn Gwizdak
>> Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2012 3:51 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why so hard?
>>
>> Hey Marsha, the pain is great right now but it will pass.  Just know
>> that YOU did the right thing for Emma by letting her retire.
>>
>> I have seen people who can't let go and they worked their dog even
>> while it was real old -age 14 - and it literally crawled up the bus
>> steps because the dog's arthitis was so bad.  Many of us were pissed
>> off at the person for putting that dog through all that just because
>> she couldn't let go and let the dog retire.  I don't negate the fact
>> that it is very hard to retire dogs that worked so many years for us
>> and we loved and were loved back.
>> Because
>> the dogs can't choose to retire, we have to know when it is time to do
>> it and then LET them do it.  We show our love for them by doing the
>> right thing by them.
>>
>> I have had 8 dogs and so far, retired 7.  Some were old and some were
>> younger and some didn't work out for various reasons and needed very
>> early retirement.  It never gets any easier every time we must break
>> our bonds with our dogs.  I was able only to place two of them with
>> people I know and are local.  They went on to enjoy their remaining
>> time with someone they already knew and liked alot.  One is gone now
>> but the other, Jacob, is still around at age 14 and enjoying life with
>> the family and their other dog.
>>
>> I'm glad that TSE has someone like Michelle Drolet to help with grief
>> about retirements or deaths of dogs.  Sometimes people need time to
>> process things before they are ready for a new dog.  This is very
>> important to do.  A friend of mine got a new dog before she was ready
>> and her unresolved grief caused her to not bond properly with the new
>> dog and it affected the working relationship and bonding with the new
>> dog.
>>
>> There's no right or wrong way to do the retirement but each person is
>> different in their response to losing or retireing a dog.  Do what
>> feels best for you - you'll know when it is time to move on and bond
>> with a new dog.
>>
>> Peace to you and take care of yourself.
>>
>> Lyn and Landon
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jenny Keller" <jlperdue3 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2012 9:38 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why so hard?
>>
>>
>>> Hi Marcia,
>>>
>>> I'm sorry this is coming so late.
>>>
>>> You know, I retired Brooks last Easter because he just stopped
>>> working and he let me know that by not guiding me around obstacles
>>> anymore.
>>>
>>> It was the hardest thing I've ever done too.  But the reaction from
>>> the school that it was my choice to retire him hurt me even more than
>>> his retirement itself.
>>>
>>> I too, had to let him go to a new family, because I didn't know how
>>> fast I would be getting a new dog from the school I applied for.
>>>
>>> It really messed me up for a while, and I wasn't sure if getting
>>> another dog was the thing I should do.  But after talking to the
>>> school I applied for, I learned things about Brooks and his quirks
>>> that he never should've been given out as a guide.
>>>
>>> That doesn't mean I love him any less.  It doesn't mean the heartache
>>> still isn't there.  It does mean that I know, for a fact, that I did
>>> everything I could do to make it work, and for me, it was doomed from
>>> the beginning.
>>>
>>> I miss him terribly, and wish I could see him.  But I think it would
>>> be confusing to him for him to see me again.
>>>
>>> He's already had to go through the change of a new family, and my
>>> popping up again in his life, I think would confuse him, or make him
>>> feel like I'm abandoning him again when I don't take him home.
>>>
>>> there are so many emotions that go along with retiring a dog.  I feel
>>> what you are feeling in my own way.  I'll never say I feel the same,
>>> cause no one feels the same emotions.
>>>
>>> Just know that whatever you feel, feel free to vent it on this list.
>>>
>>> I know, I sound like a moderator right? *smile*.  Which is funny
>>> talking to the moderator herself, but we all love you, and I hope i
>>> don't offend anyone by speaking for everyone here.
>>>
>>> We'll be here for you no matter what you need to say, or anything
>>> else you need.
>>>
>>> Just let us know.
>>>
>>> You will be in my thoughts and prayers.
>>>
>>> Be blessed in your grief, and know that Heavenly Father knows how you
>>> feel, and that his Son Jesus Christ has felt your pain too through
>>> the atonement.
>>>
>>> blessings,
>>>
>>> Jenny
>>> On Aug 22, 2012, at 8:49 PM, Juanita Herrera wrote:
>>>
>>>> Marsha,
>>>> I know that there are no words that anyone can say to relieve your
>>>> pain of retiring Emma. Especially someone like me. What do I know. I
>>>> have never experienced the retirement of a guide dog before, but the
>>>> simple thought of losing Anise makes me shutter. I would probably be
>>>> feeling the same way you are now. I know you will never forget Emma
>>>> and that she'll always hold a special place in your heart. I'm sure
>>>> your new pup will be special in its own way. I wish you the best of
>>>> luck in class.
>>>> Juanita and Anise and Baby Benson
>>>>
>>>> On 8/22/12, Marsha Drenth <marsha.drenth at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi List,
>>>>>
>>>>> Although I have been writing that Emma is retired, or semi-retired
>>>>> for weeks. And although she hasn't been able to work in a good
>>>>> while. Its official now. She is officially retired. I just continue
>>>>> to say that over and over in myhead, and its not real. *sigh* Why
>>>>> is retiring a guide so hard? I have cried over this so much, and
>>>>> then I think to myself how can I be so attached to this puppy. I
>>>>> feel stupid for crying. But how can one retire a pup without. I
>>>>> know its for the best, for her health, for me, for our stress
>>>>> level. She has not been happy working in several months, and I hate
>>>>> to see her tense because of it. currently she is here with me, and
>>>>> hasn't gone to her retirement home. But to think I'll never leave
>>>>> this house, with her in harness, with her next to me, her
>>>>> protecting me, watching out for me, guiding me. It just makes my
>>>>> heart hurt. This beautiful German Shepard, who has lived in three
>>>>> different states with me, who has traveled on three different
>>>>> college campuses, traveled to numerous cities and places, was in my
>>>>> life at the hardest and the happiness times of my life. She has
>>>>> always been there. My Emma girl, my emmalena. My emma girl who will
>>>>> let babies crawl all over her and not bat an eye lash, who will
>>>>> run, play and jump with my older kids. The girl who has saved my
>>>>> life on numerous occasions, and probably more times that I didn't
>>>>> know about. It just hurts so very very much. Its like you know
>>>>> something in your heart, but your mind hasn't kept up with that
>>>>> thought, and vice versa. Every time I have a birthday I will
>>>>> remember my Emma and the day that we met. It was my present, best
>>>>> one ever. A part of my grief is that I feel like I failed her. Yes
>>>>> she got sick. Which changed her in so many ways. But couldn't I do
>>>>> more, I could have done this or that. Why did I wait so long to to
>>>>> take her to the vet with her EPI. She was a perfect dog for me.
>>>>> This girl had so much energy, so much spunk, she fit me to the T.
>>>>> She absolutely loved working, and now she doesn't. I want that
>>>>> happy, go lucky, spunky girl back!
>>>>>
>>>>> The why is it so hard question, wasn't one really I needed an
>>>>> answer to.
>>>>> And
>>>>> over the years on this list I have seen lots of pups being retired
>>>>> and their handlers go through the same thing I am now. Yes I have a
>>>>> class date for another pup, but up until then, my mind and heart
>>>>> are going to be with Emma.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry for the rambling.
>>>>>
>>>>> Marsha drenthSent from my iPhone
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>
>>>>
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