[nagdu] airline placement of dogs and bulkhead related issues

Michael Hingson Mike at michaelhingson.com
Thu Dec 27 21:04:48 UTC 2012 

No, not in Braille.  They do, however, have to have them on board for
reference.  Since you questioned an attendant he should have retrieved the
manual and confirmed the policy.


Mike Hingson

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 01:02 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] airline placement of dogs and bulkhead related issues

They may well have, but they don't have to have them in Braille, do they?
This guy was the customer service agent after the flight crew member went
and got him. He was in the business of intimidating me. I would have loved
if he had goten it though and read it. As for flying unrestricted with
Southwest, last winter and summer I did so on four different flights, but
this time I was treated to intimidation on two of them.

I think I've used my limit for the day. *smile* CL

On Dec 27, 2012, at 12:50 PM, Michael Hingson wrote:

> Actually, by law they are required to have copies of ALL manuals on 
> each plane.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray
> Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 10:09 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] airline placement of dogs and bulkhead related 
> issues
> 
> When the one guy said it was their policy, I said, show me. He said it 
> was on their web site. Their policy is; that isn't in it.
> 
> CL
> 
> On Dec 27, 2012, at 11:37 AM, Michael Hingson wrote:
> 
>> Margo,
>> 
>> Cindy is right.  It's really not a loophole, but rather it's 
>> uninformed flight crews.  They don't know their own policies.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Margo and 
>> Arrow
>> Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 09:15 AM
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] airline placement of dogs and bulkhead related 
>> issues
>> 
>> Michael, I agree with what you're saying. I am just saying that the 
>> Southwest policy itself has loopholes that crew members could try to 
>> use and apparently they did with Cindy.
>> 
>> Margo and Arrow
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Michael Hingson <info at michaelhingson.com>
>> To: "'Nagdu Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Date: Thursday, December 27, 2012 11:16 am
>> Subject: [nagdu] FW: airline placement of dogs and bulkhead related 
>> issues
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Concerning the issue of flight crews having wiggle room with the 
>>> ACAA language, in reality, there still is no loophole.  Some 
>>> airlines can try to insist that our dogs must be by the window to 
>>> prevent emergency exits from rows.  If a guide dog is placed under 
>>> the seat in front of us in a non-bulkhead row even this issue mostly 
>>> goes away since then the blockage is no worse than people's feet being
in the isle.
>>> 
>>> By the way, I believe the most important reason for not sitting in 
>>> the bulkhead at ANY TIME is a safety one.  Dogs sitting in bulkhead 
>>> rows can bounce around during turbulent conditions while dogs under 
>>> the seat in front cannot.  In addition, it is easier to control a 
>>> dog confined in this manner than one who has more room to move and 
>>> panic in the bulkhead.  Even on small short-range aircraft there is 
>>> room to put most dogs under the seat in front of us.  I always fly 
>>> this way whether it be on Southwest, American, or any other airline.  
>>> Flight crews
>> do not actually have a say in the matter.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Michael Hingson
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 07:05 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Southwest Airlines: Customers with Disabilities
>>> 
>>> It does leave them a little loophole, but they really can't with a 
>>> straight face say it is their policy that you are to sit in the 
>>> bulkhead with your dog. It really isn't and cannot be. Their 
>>> response to my complaint said that tye are aware of it. And their 
>>> crew is going to say what they will no matter what their policy is 
>>> because they, and may other folks, too, believe that we must do as 
>>> we are told and will want
>> to intimidate us.
>>> 
>>> CL
>>> 
>>> On Dec 26, 2012, at 8:34 PM, Margo and Arrow wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Well, that's great, but, this lea"es loopholes open for crew 
>>>> members to
>>> state the dog would obsthuct evacuation unless the dog is in the 
>>> bulkhead or whatever designated seating they designate.
>>>> 
>>>> Southwest should have a clause stating that people are not required 
>>>> to sit
>>> with their assistance animals in the bulkhead but can choose their 
>>> seating except for exit rows, I guess.
>>>> 
>>>> Margo and Arrow
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Steven Johnson <blinddog3 at charter.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 7:02 pm
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Southwest Airlines: Customers with Disabilities
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cindy,
>>>>> You may already have this information, but their on-line 
>>>>> information
>>> states:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Trained Assistance Animals
>>>>> 
>>>>> Southwest Airlines welcomes trained assistance animals on all of 
>>>>> our flights. Except when too large to be safely accommodated, a 
>>>>> trained assistance animal traveling with and providing assistance 
>>>>> to a Customer with a disability will be accommodated in the 
>>>>> aircraft cabin. In accordance with federal safety regulations, the 
>>>>> animal must be positioned so as not to obstruct Customers'
>>>>> expeditious evacuation in the unlikely event of an emergency.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.southwest.com/html/customer-service/unique-travel-needs
>>>>> /
>>>>> in
>>>>> dex-pol
>>>>> ._html
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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