[nagdu] cooperation vs. force

[GARY STEEVES]

Hi Julie:

Well said. I think I must work under a similar philosophy. I have never used a tie down. At our school we were told to keep our dogs on leash for the first couple of days to avoid accidents in the  room. I did this but was probably the first one to stop having him on a leash. He was crate trained at the school but I knew we didn't have room for a big crate  i n  our apartment so didn't keep that up at school. I did use the crate for the first week or so and then would leave the door open and he could decide where he slept. I was the first student to leave him alone when I went to the end of day meeting because I wanted him to start getting used to me leaving, and more importantly, me coming back. Now many things with dogs are about them and their personalities but Bogart has never had an accident (intentional or not) inside. The closest thing he has was once when my girlfriend was petting him and rubbing just above his tail a poop fell out. It was very funny. Everyone, including bogart, seemed a bit shocked. I guess that one hadn't come out  on his walk.

We did the thing with leaving him alone for short, and then longer stints once we got home. Only twice did I hear him bark and make a scene annd I went back and dealt with it with stern words and directing him, in no uncertain terms, to his bed. Now we can confidently go out for dinner or to a movie/concert and not worry about him. Of course, we will find him lying in front of the door where we left him, his virtual crate. :)

Anyway, as Julie says, you have to give your dog the chance for success. Of course, he will make mistakes or fail from time to time just like we do but using as much positive re-enforcement probably has the best results.

This is my first dog so maybe I'll find in two years that there is something about how I've done things that will cause me problems but I'd rather err on the side of the dog having a good life, being able to make choices and corrected when necessary.

To conclude, by no way am I trying to say anyone elses way of dealing with things is wrong. We have to work with the dog we have and the life set up we have to  make things work. If your dog is happy, stimulated, challenged and loved(and the same for their handlers <chuckle>) then everything will probably work out.

Gary

----- Original Message -----
From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 8:59 am
Subject: [nagdu] cooperation vs. force
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>

> All the recent messages on this list and others concerning 
> corrections, tie downs, muzzles etc. have me thinking.  
> Although I'm not absolutely opposed to corrections, confinement, 
> muzzles or any other sort of punitive measure that comes to 
> mind, it does make me wonder how the use of these affect the 
> relationship with the dog.  To me the relationship I have 
> with my dog is the most important thing.  If that is built 
> from trust, cooperation and mutual respect then everything else 
> will be fine.  I want a dog to want to be with me and work 
> with me not out of fear of a punishment, but because he 
> genuinely enjoys my company.  I want him to feel empowered 
> to think for himself and to try new things.  I feel that 
> too much use of punishment based interaction will hamper the 
> ability for him to do these things.  I want him to learn 
> self control so he can manage his own impulses out of a place 
> of  confidence in his own choices rather than me 
> micromanaging his life.
> 
> I'm not explaining well.   I guess what I'm trying to 
> say is that I think freedom of choice on the part of the dog is 
> an important thing.  Too often I have fallen into the trap 
> of micromanaging too much of my dog's lives, not allowing them 
> any amount of freedom.  I regret that.  It is 
> something that I have learned with Monty.  To truly trust a 
> dog you have to give them opportunities to mess up so they can 
> show you that they won't.
> 
> Julie
> 
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