[nagdu] Exemption for Private Clubs and Religious Organizations

Tue Jan 17 18:48:28 UTC 2012

Robert,

Please send them to webmaster at nagdu.org.

Thanks!

Tami

On 01/17/2012 05:10 AM, Robert Harris wrote:
> Thanks Marion I get it.  I can send a picture of Prince at work, past
> dog Clara at work and Past past dog Kirstin at work anytime just let me
> know who to send them if they are wanted.
>
> Bobby and Prince
>
>
>
>
> From:	"Marion Gwizdala"<blind411 at verizon.net>
> To:	"NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide
>              Dog Users"<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Date:	01/13/2012 05:02 AM
> Subject:	Re: [nagdu] Exemption for Private Clubs and Religious
>              Organizations
> Sent by:	nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>
>
>
> Robert,
>      Sam's and Cosko, along with numerous other consumer clubs are not
> private in nature. Membership is based upon the payment of a fee to
> receive
> the benefits of membership. What the law protects are clubs whose
> membership
> requirements might include specific characteristics. Let's say, for
> argument's sake, there is a club called the REdheaded Men of Tampa whose
>
> membership is only open to, well, redheaded men who live in Tampa. I
> could
> be a member, but my wife could not. She is neither redheaded nor a man.
> this
> club, private in nature, is not bound by the provisions of the ADA.
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Harris"<Harris.Robert at epamail.epa.gov>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 6:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Exemption for Private Clubs and Religious
> Organizations
>
>
>> I'd be interested to see that article too because it clashes with the
>> bible.  What exactly are we talking about "Private Clubs" If we mean
>> dating or similar more intense activity clubs, private skeete or gun
>> clubs, etc I can dig what's going on, but if we mean Sams Club or
> other
>> card holder shopping centers I have a real problem which is answered
>> anyone who pays the fee can access the facility including with a dog
>> guide. allot of legal mumbo-jumbo is going on where they tried to
>> enterperate laws to suit private agendas. Change, Yes We CaN!!!!!
>>
>> Now my two questions I joined up to see if I could find an answer. In
>> 1982 I bought a very heavy bouncy rubber ball with a bell in it. I
> still
>> use it today but think it will eventually rot out.  Anyone know where
>> those balls can be found today? It has a hole in it and has served me
>> all 6 dogs well but Prince is beating on it good and has a strong
> bite.
>> He gives me the ball after running about 60 yards with it.
>>
>> 2. What is the latest haps on good dog boots out there for heavy
>> commuting in slush or are we still messing with what I've seen at
>> petsmart and other local stores (junk)?
>>
>> Bobby and Prince
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: "Marion Gwizdala"<blind411 at verizon.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide
>>             Dog Users"<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Date: 01/12/2012 03:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Exemption for Private Clubs and Religious
>>             Organizations
>> Sent by: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>
>>
>>
>> Rebecca,
>>     There are those on this list who may be able to provide a better
>> explanation than I. I believe that, if a private club has specific
>> membership requirements and those requirements are used across the
>> spectrum,
>> such as race, ethnicity, gender, or disability, use of those
>> characteristics
>> to exclude an individual for membership are not considered
>> discriminatory.
>>     There is an article on today's Associated Press in which the Courts
>> have
>> affirmed that the ADA does not apply to religious organizations. I
> will
>> find
>> that article and forward it to this list.
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)"<REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 10:44 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Exemption for Private Clubs and Religious
>> Organizations
>>
>>
>>> So can aprivate club not allow someone because of race or disability?
>>>
>>> I thought that a private club could exclude anybody they wanted but
> it
>>
>>> couldn't be based on something the person can't control like race.
>>> Can you explain?
>>> And what constitutes a private club?
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>>> Of Marion Gwizdala
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 9:19 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Exemption for Private Clubs and Religious
>>> Organizations
>>>
>>>     Julie's assessment of the separation of church and state is
> correct
>> as
>>> it pertains to religious institutions and places of worship. As it
>> relates
>>> to private clubs, the private club has the right to set its own
>> membership
>>> criteria and exclude whomever they wish. Although we may not want to
>> join
>>> a
>>> private club that excludes people who use service animals or those
> who
>> use
>>> wheelchairs, but we may also not want to join clubs that exclude
> Jews,
>>> blacks, homosexuals, Polocks, or those with other characteristics.
>>> Similarly, there are those who want to join such clubs and that is
>> their
>>> right of association and free speech.
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Julie J."<julielj at neb.rr.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 4:43 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Exemption for Private Clubs and Religious
>>> Organizations
>>>
>>>
>>>> Sheila and all,
>>>>
>>>> The rationale of the exemption of places of worship from the ADA
>> stems
>>>> from the principle of the separation of church and state.
>>>>
>>>> Having said that, I, personally, would not attend a place of worship
>>>> where
>>>> my guide was not welcome no matter that the law gives them the
> option
>> of
>>>> exclusion.
>>>>
>>>> Julie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 12/28/2011 8:08 PM, Sheila Leigland wrote:
>>>>> I understand about clubs if you don't pay why be at there
>> activities. I
>>>>> won't choose betreen my having and using my guide dog and a church.
>> If
>>>>> my
>>>>> dog isn't welcome at a church I won't be attending that church.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sheila Leiglan d
>>>>>
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