[nagdu] Owner training

Robert Hooper hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu
Thu Jan 19 18:07:37 UTC 2012


Hello:

I would like to respond to your message point by point. I will do so by appending my comments to the end of each numbered answer and to the end of the message above your signature.

Robert,

You are too funny!  We have talked about owner training fairly extensively on this list, but not in some time.  I'm answering on list because usually when someone asks me to write off list about owner training, there are several other people requesting that I share my thoughts on list.  So here goes!

1. In regard to selecting a dog...you are right the larger schools do have multiple dogs to choose from when matching you, but the smaller ones do not always.  Choosing a dog to begin the owner training process is the most difficult part of the whole thing.  I've started with older puppies for my last two guides.  Their temperament is fairly well established and you mostly get what you see.  With a young puppy you won't know exactly what he/she will turn out like until months later.  
The best advice I can give here is to choose a breeder wisely, get in lots of socialization and have a back up plan if it doesn't work out.  
Actually the back up plan isn't just for puppies.
So, I gather (as I suspected) that breeder selection is extremely important. Do you get to spend time with the available dogs in order to figure out which one you wish to purchase? Also, what costs are we looking at in terms of buying a dog, making appointments, etc. I hope that by the time I have a Ph.D. or a PsyD, I would be able to afford such costs, but it still seems as though it could easily be prohibitively expensive.
2.  Reasons for owner training...these have changed a bit over the years for me, but the main reason that has never changed is that I just plain love to do it.  I like training dogs.  I enjoy seeing a young clueless dog slowly metamorphose into a competent guide dog.  I find it mentally challenging and extremely enjoyable.

Other reasons I like to owner train include: complete ownership, the ability to choose equipment, the ability to choose what food to feed, the ability to obtain veterinary care as I feel appropriate, no need to complete any yearly paperwork, no need to go to doctor's appointments that I don't need so I can fill out applications, no need to take off a month of work and family life, no need to stress about living with strangers for a month, and a huge sense of accomplishment for a job well done when the dog guides me around an obstacle for the first or even the 471st time.

Disadvantages for me...there is no trainer to call if I run into a snag. 
It can be expensive. There are no guarantees of success. It's a load of time invested. It can be emotionally difficult at times. I have to advocate for myself, always.  Sometimes other guide dog handlers and service dog users can be quite unpleasant about owner training.  And it's a lot of work.
This brings me back to my work difficulty. If I had a fulltime job, would I still realistically be able to expect to successfully train a dog to be a guide dog? If you don't mind me asking, what is your work situation as it relates to dog training?
3.  Pace and pull...I believe that pace and pull are partly a product of 
the dog's individuality and part training.   Again I've started with 
older puppies so I feel I could gauge at least pace pretty well.  I prefer a strong enough pull to know there is a dog in the harness, but not so much that I'm being dragged down the street.  In my experience dog's naturally pull and it is mostly a process of getting that pull down to the level that is comfortable.  I used to walk very fast and so picked an athletic dog that could keep up.  Now since I've broken my foot, Monty and I are having to  learn to work at a slower pace.  It's a process, but we are getting there.
This brings me back to my original inquiry in question 1-2. Do you get to spend time with or walk the various dogs a breeder may have to help decide which one you want? Forgive my ignorance here, I have never had an occasion to talk to or purchase a dog from a breeder, thus I am quite unfamiliar with the process and how it works.
4.  Training theory and approaches...my best advice here is to find a method that resonates with you.  I was originally taught dog training way back in the day with the very harsh correction methods.  Those methods pretty much flopped with Belle so I had to learn a new way of working with her.  I learned about clicker training and used it with a lot of success.  Now I use a variety of techniques depending on the situation, the dog and what will work best.  I lean toward a more positive approach, meaning clicker or operant conditioning.  Especially in the early stages of training I give the dog the benefit of my doubt.  
Generally I will assume a mistake by the dog means that I haven't trained that skill to the level I was asking the dog to perform.  We back up and practice more in lower distraction places, less complicated situations or break the task down into smaller pieces so the dog can be successful.  Later when I am 110% sure the dog knows exactly what I'm asking him to do and is blatantly choosing not to do it and a verbal reminder has had no effect, I will use corrections.

All that is just me though.  No training method is going to be successful if the trainer doesn't believe in it, doesn't use it correctly or isn't consistent.  I also think that one way of training doesn't fit every dog.  I guess that's another advantage of owner training.  If I try teaching a skill one way and it doesn't work, that doesn't mean the dog fails.  It means that I find a new way of presenting the information to the dog.  Belle required repetition to understand things.  With her it was practice makes perfect.  With Monty if I do too many repetitions he starts thinking there is something else he needs to do.  He'll start getting creative, adding, elaborating or improvising.  For him 3 or 4 run throughs, then a break to do something else works best.  He also generalizes scary fast.  I had to be about 3 steps ahead of him or he'd make giant leaps of learning in new directions that I wasn't prepared for.
A lot of this sounds like it came from Leerburg, a person (and his website) that seems to have a rational and scientific approach to dog training. Also, in what way is operant conditioning considered positive? It is a mere psychological principle with four components--positive and negative reinforcement and punishment. I can see the "positive" in positive reinforcement--that is, the rewarding with praise for a desired behavior. However, operant conditioning also contains positive punishment, which is the addition of a negative consequence as a response for undesired behavior--that is, the leash correction to inhibit an undesired behavior. Are you saying you don't use corrections--which, if used properly, are part of operant conditioning, the principle you said you used. Just hoping for clarification on this point; I would tend to agree with what you said about training. Operant conditioning also contains negative punishment, or the removal of a positive consequence for an undesired behavior, but I can't see dogs understanding this. It would be the equivalent of taking away a child's television for bad behavior. Maybe dogs understand this in the form of crating them after violating certain pack behaviors, but I still don't see this (negative punishment) as effective. SO, to sum up, positive reinforcement and positive punishment seem to be the most effective. I know of some trainers who use negative reinforcement (that is, the removing of a negative consequence in response to a desired behavior), but I don't like some of their methods. For example, some will induce an electric shock when they give a dog a command and only stop the electric stimulation when the dog complies, thus rewarding them by the removal of a negative consequence. I don't think this is conducive for the development of a good relationship, and it creates a negative association with certain commands--I want my dog to be happy when he works, not in fear of being shocked. Anyway, I apologize for the rant--I'm just not sure what you meant when you categorized operant conditioning as more "positive" training. To me, when somebody says "positive" training, I think of the ineffective obedience classes offered by PetCo.
5. sighted help...If you have people available to help you, sighted or blind, it will be most useful.  Knowing what is coming up can be helpful during the early stages of training.  In the beginning the dog won't be guiding, you will actually be guiding him through what you want him to learn.  A cane is useful too.  Safety is the main thing.  Whatever you need to do to keep safe is the right thing.

I'd say that I do about 98% of the training independently.  My son enjoys setting up obstacle courses on the front sidewalk for me to work through.  I'd also have him help with early moving obstacles.  first he'd push the wheeled trash can around.  Then we'd progress to skateboard, bike or scooter.  Much later I had my husband drive a car to practice traffic avoidance.  If you don't have sighted assistance, it can still be done.  I know of owner trainers who do it this way.

The second part of this question was about socialization and where to take the dog...I did not take Monty to work with me until he was fully 
trained and then some.   I did not purchase a vest that said puppy in 
training.  Again I was working with older puppies.  By the time I was absolutely certain they weren't going to have an accident in a store and I had had the dog long enough to know them well enough to gauge what socialization was appropriate, I was starting the very beginning of harness work.  I put the harness on and took them into businesses wearing it.  I did have a patch that said "service dog in training" with Belle.  I lost it for a while and didn't find it until after Monty was past that stage.  I am also extremely conservative with taking dogs into public during training.  I plan very carefully.  I do not take young dogs into public because I need to buy something or run errands.  Each time I take a young dog into a public place it is a specific training session with specific goals in mind.  I frequently use dog friendly places for the majority of early socialization, parks, outdoor festivals, farmers market, school playgrounds, outside of stores, walks downtown, hardware stores etc.

With Belle and Tia I worked  from home or was going to school.  My time was very flexible around their schedule and training.  With Monty I worked part time.  He was in his kennel while I was at work.  I have absolutely no idea how you could owner train a dog while working full time with no one at home to help.  Perhaps if you started with an adult dog and had an employer who was agreeable to bringing a dog in training with you to work.

6.  When is the dog fully trained...for me it is when I stop questioning myself every time I leave the house.  Have I taken the dog to this place before?  Is he familiar with that type of situation?  How did he do last time?  How long will I be gone?  Is he ready for this type of 
situation?   When I quit doing that and instinctively reach for the 
harness, then the dog is fully trained.

I hope that answers some of your questions.  I firmly believe that owner training a guide dog is not  rocket science.  I think there are a lot of 
blind people with the ability to do it.   The crucial factor is 
commitment.  Belle took about a year and Monty a little longer to get from adolescent to capable guide dog.  During that time I'd work every single day on their education, rain or shine, arctic freeze or 
blistering heat, we were working.   Not everyone has that amount of time 
or wants to devote it to dog training.  I happen to find it extremely enjoyable.  I found it no hardship to spend my free time training.  
Actually the opposite is true.  Now that Monty is a fully trained guide dog I find myself dreaming up new things to teach him or the occasional daydream about getting another dog.  I don't know if I will owner train again or not.  I know the determining factor will be my available time 
and physical ability to do the work and not the desire to train.   My 
heart will always be with owner training.

Anyway this has gotten extremely long.  I hope you find something useful in there.  Please feel free to ask any questions or to talk about owner training freely.
I have--and I hope that my follow-up questions will provide even more useful tidbits--I believe I am familiar with the principles of training, if not exactly how to apply them (although I'm sure experience will be a wonderful teacher). I, too, have trained Bailey to do a few additional tasks--such a bringing me items and touching my hand. Of course, these are incredibly simple tasks next to training a dog from the ground up, as it were. I appreciate your response and your patience with my novels.
Julie


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