[nagdu] Owner training

[Julie J.]

Tami wrote:
*I love talking owner-training as much as I love hearing others like you 
talk owner-training...*

I think that's the core of it really.  It's the love of the process.  
the desire to learn more about dogs, dog training, to think and plan and 
to hit the pavement running.  I know it is for me and I would venture a 
guess that for most owner trainers, especially the repeats, that it 
isn't as much to do with the end result of a guide dog, it's more about 
the love of the journey. Don't get me wrong, that competent guide dog at 
the end is a huge reward, but I don't think it's the main motivation for 
most of us.

Julie




On 1/19/2012 4:21 PM, Tami Kinney wrote:
> Julie,
>
> I was noticing, too, that more people are interested than I tend to 
> assume. /smile/ Even though people should know by now that when I 
> describe the potential that something I write might be long... /lol/
>
> Also, I never get enough of hearing you talk owner-training! I"ve been 
> running around busy, head writing my answers to the questions, 
> polishing metaphores about egs, baskets, that sort of thing... Well, I 
> get there, because I love talking owner-training as much as I love 
> hearing others like you talk owner-training...
>
> It's an addiction! /lol/
>
> Tami
>
> On 01/19/2012 08:57 AM, Julie J. wrote:
>> Robert,
>>
>> You are too funny! We have talked about owner training fairly
>> extensively on this list, but not in some time. I'm answering on list
>> because usually when someone asks me to write off list about owner
>> training, there are several other people requesting that I share my
>> thoughts on list. So here goes!
>>
>> 1. In regard to selecting a dog...you are right the larger schools do
>> have multiple dogs to choose from when matching you, but the smaller
>> ones do not always. Choosing a dog to begin the owner training process
>> is the most difficult part of the whole thing. I've started with older
>> puppies for my last two guides. Their temperament is fairly well
>> established and you mostly get what you see. With a young puppy you
>> won't know exactly what he/she will turn out like until months later.
>> The best advice I can give here is to choose a breeder wisely, get in
>> lots of socialization and have a back up plan if it doesn't work out.
>> Actually the back up plan isn't just for puppies.
>>
>> 2. Reasons for owner training...these have changed a bit over the years
>> for me, but the main reason that has never changed is that I just plain
>> love to do it. I like training dogs. I enjoy seeing a young clueless dog
>> slowly metamorphose into a competent guide dog. I find it mentally
>> challenging and extremely enjoyable.
>>
>> Other reasons I like to owner train include: complete ownership, the
>> ability to choose equipment, the ability to choose what food to feed,
>> the ability to obtain veterinary care as I feel appropriate, no need to
>> complete any yearly paperwork, no need to go to doctor's appointments
>> that I don't need so I can fill out applications, no need to take off a
>> month of work and family life, no need to stress about living with
>> strangers for a month, and a huge sense of accomplishment for a job well
>> done when the dog guides me around an obstacle for the first or even the
>> 471st time.
>>
>> Disadvantages for me...there is no trainer to call if I run into a snag.
>> It can be expensive. There are no guarantees of success. It's a load of
>> time invested. It can be emotionally difficult at times. I have to
>> advocate for myself, always. Sometimes other guide dog handlers and
>> service dog users can be quite unpleasant about owner training. And it's
>> a lot of work.
>>
>> 3. Pace and pull...I believe that pace and pull are partly a product of
>> the dog's individuality and part training. Again I've started with older
>> puppies so I feel I could gauge at least pace pretty well. I prefer a
>> strong enough pull to know there is a dog in the harness, but not so
>> much that I'm being dragged down the street. In my experience dog's
>> naturally pull and it is mostly a process of getting that pull down to
>> the level that is comfortable. I used to walk very fast and so picked an
>> athletic dog that could keep up. Now since I've broken my foot, Monty
>> and I are having to learn to work at a slower pace. It's a process, but
>> we are getting there.
>>
>> 4. Training theory and approaches...my best advice here is to find a
>> method that resonates with you. I was originally taught dog training way
>> back in the day with the very harsh correction methods. Those methods
>> pretty much flopped with Belle so I had to learn a new way of working
>> with her. I learned about clicker training and used it with a lot of
>> success. Now I use a variety of techniques depending on the situation,
>> the dog and what will work best. I lean toward a more positive approach,
>> meaning clicker or operant conditioning. Especially in the early stages
>> of training I give the dog the benefit of my doubt. Generally I will
>> assume a mistake by the dog means that I haven't trained that skill to
>> the level I was asking the dog to perform. We back up and practice more
>> in lower distraction places, less complicated situations or break the
>> task down into smaller pieces so the dog can be successful. Later when I
>> am 110% sure the dog knows exactly what I'm asking him to do and is
>> blatantly choosing not to do it and a verbal reminder has had no effect,
>> I will use corrections.
>>
>> All that is just me though. No training method is going to be successful
>> if the trainer doesn't believe in it, doesn't use it correctly or isn't
>> consistent. I also think that one way of training doesn't fit every dog.
>> I guess that's another advantage of owner training. If I try teaching a
>> skill one way and it doesn't work, that doesn't mean the dog fails. It
>> means that I find a new way of presenting the information to the dog.
>> Belle required repetition to understand things. With her it was practice
>> makes perfect. With Monty if I do too many repetitions he starts
>> thinking there is something else he needs to do. He'll start getting
>> creative, adding, elaborating or improvising. For him 3 or 4 run
>> throughs, then a break to do something else works best. He also
>> generalizes scary fast. I had to be about 3 steps ahead of him or he'd
>> make giant leaps of learning in new directions that I wasn't prepared 
>> for.
>>
>> 5. sighted help...If you have people available to help you, sighted or
>> blind, it will be most useful. Knowing what is coming up can be helpful
>> during the early stages of training. In the beginning the dog won't be
>> guiding, you will actually be guiding him through what you want him to
>> learn. A cane is useful too. Safety is the main thing. Whatever you need
>> to do to keep safe is the right thing.
>>
>> I'd say that I do about 98% of the training independently. My son enjoys
>> setting up obstacle courses on the front sidewalk for me to work
>> through. I'd also have him help with early moving obstacles. first he'd
>> push the wheeled trash can around. Then we'd progress to skateboard,
>> bike or scooter. Much later I had my husband drive a car to practice
>> traffic avoidance. If you don't have sighted assistance, it can still be
>> done. I know of owner trainers who do it this way.
>>
>> The second part of this question was about socialization and where to
>> take the dog...I did not take Monty to work with me until he was fully
>> trained and then some. I did not purchase a vest that said puppy in
>> training. Again I was working with older puppies. By the time I was
>> absolutely certain they weren't going to have an accident in a store and
>> I had had the dog long enough to know them well enough to gauge what
>> socialization was appropriate, I was starting the very beginning of
>> harness work. I put the harness on and took them into businesses wearing
>> it. I did have a patch that said "service dog in training" with Belle. I
>> lost it for a while and didn't find it until after Monty was past that
>> stage. I am also extremely conservative with taking dogs into public
>> during training. I plan very carefully. I do not take young dogs into
>> public because I need to buy something or run errands. Each time I take
>> a young dog into a public place it is a specific training session with
>> specific goals in mind. I frequently use dog friendly places for the
>> majority of early socialization, parks, outdoor festivals, farmers
>> market, school playgrounds, outside of stores, walks downtown, hardware
>> stores etc.
>>
>> With Belle and Tia I worked from home or was going to school. My time
>> was very flexible around their schedule and training. With Monty I
>> worked part time. He was in his kennel while I was at work. I have
>> absolutely no idea how you could owner train a dog while working full
>> time with no one at home to help. Perhaps if you started with an adult
>> dog and had an employer who was agreeable to bringing a dog in training
>> with you to work.
>>
>> 6. When is the dog fully trained...for me it is when I stop questioning
>> myself every time I leave the house. Have I taken the dog to this place
>> before? Is he familiar with that type of situation? How did he do last
>> time? How long will I be gone? Is he ready for this type of situation?
>> When I quit doing that and instinctively reach for the harness, then the
>> dog is fully trained.
>>
>> I hope that answers some of your questions. I firmly believe that owner
>> training a guide dog is not rocket science. I think there are a lot of
>> blind people with the ability to do it. The crucial factor is
>> commitment. Belle took about a year and Monty a little longer to get
>> from adolescent to capable guide dog. During that time I'd work every
>> single day on their education, rain or shine, arctic freeze or
>> blistering heat, we were working. Not everyone has that amount of time
>> or wants to devote it to dog training. I happen to find it extremely
>> enjoyable. I found it no hardship to spend my free time training.
>> Actually the opposite is true. Now that Monty is a fully trained guide
>> dog I find myself dreaming up new things to teach him or the occasional
>> daydream about getting another dog. I don't know if I will owner train
>> again or not. I know the determining factor will be my available time
>> and physical ability to do the work and not the desire to train. My
>> heart will always be with owner training.
>>
>> Anyway this has gotten extremely long. I hope you find something useful
>> in there. Please feel free to ask any questions or to talk about owner
>> training freely.
>>
>> Julie
>>
>>
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