[nagdu] Reactions was Re: Advice Requested

Nicole B. Torcolini at Home ntorcolini at wavecable.com
Tue Jan 24 21:55:14 UTC 2012


People,

    I seriously hope that you are joking about some of the things that you 
are suggesting. There is certainly more than one right way to do something, 
but there is also a wrong way. There is a difference in getting your rights 
and making enemies. Some of the things that people have been suggesting, or 
hopefully only joking about, are plain out not appropriate.

Nicole

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tami Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested


> Rebecca,
>
> Well, I have not been a sullen teenager for an awfully long tiem, but when 
> someone else is handing me that bag you refer to...
>
> Oh, by the way, have you actually handed some fool a bag of dog poop? I've 
> always wanted to, but just haven't gotten around to it. I've also heard of 
> throwing the bag before you get it tied up... Tempting, but I've always 
> chickened out. /lol/
>
> There does come a time when you have to look at it from a time management 
> perspective in light of your life's goals and options for recourse... One 
> needs to work, study, eat, sleep, take the dog out to poop... Sometimes, 
> there's not a lot of spare time to fit someone else's illegal crap in.
>
> In theory, I'm with fighting tooth and nail. In reality... Well, let's 
> see, I am currently taking a little over a week out of my own life and 
> studies and work in order to fight tooth and nail against yet another law 
> breaking VRC from our agency. Have had my civil rights violated twice 
> based on a lie about RSA rules, of all things. Yeah, like the RSA would 
> have rules that are contrary to Federal VR law. So now I'm simply 
> reviewing a bunch of stuff that I don't have time to read just so that I 
> can use what will be a third violation of my civil rights in under two 
> weeks to get evidence I can use to deal with it instead of just 
> pointlessly playing the she said she said game.
>
> I really don't have time for this! Things then that I am responsible for 
> are even more hit and miss. My professional development is taking not so 
> much the back seat, but the pile of poopy snow as I drive off and leave it 
> behind. And so on.
>
> I have better things to do with my time than waste it on crap like this! I 
> really do. But since none of the tens or even 100s of people who have been 
> responsible for the mess for 39 years now have bothered to clean up their 
> own mess, just letting it pile up and get stinkier...
>
> The metaphor is running away with me, isn't it? /grin/
>
> Yeah, I know. I sound like a combination of a sulky teenager and a snarly 
> old blind, er, you know. But I'll tel you what. I've earned it. And, when 
> it comes to my time management in light of my life and goals, I do not 
> like having my time wasted with petty, illegal crap from people whose 
> salary comes out of my pocket.
>
> So, if Mark is paying anything at all into his schooling, or if his 
> parents are paying taxes or if he is paying taxes by being a working 
> student... Um... Why join in with a dean of students whose salary comes 
> out of Mark's pockets and his family's pockets, one way or another, to 
> watch him break the law looking for poop in snow on property that has 
> nothing to do with the school?
>
> Some of us have lives to live.
>
> Hm... When the VRC tried to insist that because of that RSA rule nobody 
> else has ever heard of that I come there to her office, guess what I told 
> her. Nope. That is time and expense I don't have to waste. If you're going 
> to insist on a face-to-face meeting because of this RSA rule, then you can 
> come here!
>
> So, taxpayer money will be funding her trip out to my house and her time, 
> but that is her choice. How I spend my time is mine. /grin/
>
> I will remind her that, since I am a taxpayer that time and expense she 
> just wasted to violate my civil rights under federal law is coming out of 
> my pocket. /smile/
>
> Tami
>
> On 01/24/2012 09:59 AM, Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) wrote:
>> Mark,
>> I haven't read all of this thread.
>> I wonder though why you don't want to take more of an active role in 
>> clearing this up? You aren't being difficult, you are looking out for 
>> your best interests.
>> The attitude of "I have better things to do with my time"
>> Strikes me as a sullen teenager.
>> I realize that you are upset, I realize this situation is blantantly 
>> unfair, and that is all the more reason to participate.
>> Also, some of your messages are unclear. Is the punishment "Whatever the 
>> accuser wants" or is it "staying in the dorm without due process".
>> It can't be toth.
>> Participate in all meetings, take notes, document, have as many people 
>> who want to advocate for you do just that.
>> You will have way better results then the attitude the below message 
>> conveys.
>>
>> Lastly, know that you can always take a bag of poop and give it to 
>> whoever is acusing you. Trust me, it is awesome to go to someone who is 
>> giving you problems and hand them a bag of shit.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf Of Mark J. Cadigan
>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 2:37 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>
>> I was not with him when he made the inspection. I had better things to do
>> with my life besides analyze doggy skid marks.
>>
>>
>>
>> He can love me or hate me, and I don't really care. He just got to know 
>> that
>> when pushed, I swing back and hit hard.
>>
>>
>>
>> My point of asking this on list besides simply venting is if he attempts 
>> to
>> pursue this any stronger than grumbling at me, what is my recourse.  What 
>> if
>> anything can he due to me and how can I defend myself against it.  I am
>> talking in the legal and school rules realms hear, I have no fears that 
>> he
>> would try anything other than administrative punishment.
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Lisa belville"<missktlab1217 at frontier.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 1:34 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>
>>
>>> Hmm, Interesting.  so the ODS director not only polices the college's
>>> property, but property that technically doesn't belong to the college?
>>> What then does this presumably educated person do when it comes to 
>>> actual
>>> work? Getting paid to be outside looking for doggie skid marks seems a 
>>> bit
>>> below someone with an advanced degree, but stranger things have 
>>> happened.
>>>
>>> ?  And yes, that was sarcasm.
>>>
>>> I agree with the person who suggested that you get a sighted person to
>>> photograph the area.  When the director is pointing out these spots, do
>>> you have someone there who can confirm or deny the allegations or do you
>>> go out there alone with this person
>>>
>>> Surely people with other service dogs are missing spots here and there.
>>> Even fully sighted people don't get every single shred when they pick 
>>> up,
>>> assuming they pick up.  Plus those using dogs for work like bracing or
>>> door opening may not be in a position to physically pick up after their
>>> dog, so how do they deal with this?
>>>
>>> I guess what I'm asking here is whether or not this director has an 
>>> issue
>>> with service dogs in general or with you specifically.  The more I read, 
>>> I
>>> have to wonder if it's some beef, real or imagined that this person has
>>> with you.
>>>
>>> Does your college have a disabled students club or some kind of social
>>> networking aspect specific to those with disabilities?  It might be 
>>> worth
>>> it to go this route to at least learn whether or not you're being 
>>> singled
>>> out. Even if this person isn't singling you out, this behavior is way 
>>> over
>>> the top, IMO.
>>>
>>> Lisa
>>>
>>>
>>> I'll try anything once, especially if it's chocolate covered!
>>>
>>> Lisa Belville
>>> missktlab1217 at frontier.com
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan"<kramc11 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:02 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>
>>>
>>>> Yes, the director of the ODS office made a dog dropping inspection, and
>>>> counted "no less than 8 skid marks on the pavement.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't know who his boss is.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The security guards love my dog. I don't think it is them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Robert Hooper"<hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:35 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> You shouldn't have to do that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who, specifically, is giving you the hard time? Do you have people 
>>>>> from
>>>>> ODS following you around everywhere? Who is telling them that it is 
>>>>> your
>>>>> dog--could it be the aforementioned security guards in your dorm 
>>>>> filing
>>>>> complaints? If so, they may make it sound a lot worse than it really
>>>>> is--the ODS people may be being told that there are massive chunks of
>>>>> doggy dung lying around instead of the occasional mustard blot. I just
>>>>> don't see how ODS would even know about your dog's relieving behavior.
>>>>> ODS at my school isn't interested in the slightest that I even have a
>>>>> dog, let alone when and where it poops. This situation is astonishing 
>>>>> to
>>>>> me because of that. When I stroll into ODS, I get nothing but the
>>>>> occasional compliment about my "pretty shepherd" and then it's on to
>>>>> business. Has somebody from ODS been out there to check the specific
>>>>> spot? You should demand that they clean it up since their expertise
>>>>> about dog care knows no bounds. You should also inform them that you 
>>>>> are
>>>>> a grown human being who managed to pass through a college admission
>>>>> screening process and that their attitude is disgusting, 
>>>>> condescending,
>>>>> and appropriate toward a nine-year-old, not a competent individual 
>>>>> such
>>>>> as yourself who strives to one day soon have a degree in hand. Ask 
>>>>> them
>>>>> if they also want to monitor your pooping behavior and ensure that you
>>>>> are flushing after each #2 you make. Ask them also if they plan on
>>>>> eating a four course meal from the pavement in question, because if 
>>>>> so,
>>>>> then there is a lot more that needs done to clean it up than Mr. 
>>>>> Clean.
>>>>> Tell them that if they are going to treat you like a child, then you
>>>>> want them to also go after the drunks that puke on the pavement; those
>>>>> who urinate on the pavement; those who throw trash or food on the
>>>>> pavement; those who spit their gum on the pavement. Ask them if they
>>>>> care where your dog goes when you are at home because your home is 
>>>>> just
>>>>> as off-campus as the place you take your dog when you are at school.
>>>>> Finally, demand of this person to see their supervisor, to whom you 
>>>>> will
>>>>> say the same things until somebody decides to get off their power trip
>>>>> and treat you like you're the college student that you are, not their
>>>>> wayward naughty child.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry for the rant, but people and situations like that disgust, 
>>>>> sicken,
>>>>> and sadden me. Of course, you probably shouldn't spout all that to
>>>>> anyone. At least make it sound more diplomatic first. However, I 
>>>>> assure
>>>>> you that if it were me, that would be the overall impression I would 
>>>>> try
>>>>> to leave with them. Whether they have a fancy policy about dog dung or
>>>>> not, it can't apply off-campus--no matter how close to campus it 
>>>>> is--off
>>>>> campus is off campus. Period. It would be the equivalent of them 
>>>>> saying
>>>>> "Clean up more carefully after your dog when you're at your mother's
>>>>> house. Otherwise, there will be consequences for you." Anyway, I hope
>>>>> you get that resolved. Don't hesitate to inform them of their 
>>>>> deplorable
>>>>> attitude and patronizing policies.
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> Robert Hooper
>>>>> Hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu
>>>>> The Ohio State University
>>>>> 0653 Buckeye-Cuyahoga CT
>>>>> 653 Cuyahoga Court
>>>>> Columbus, Ohio 43210
>>>>> (740) 856-8195
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf Of Mark J. Cadigan
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:00 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>
>>>>> I may just do that. But, I would rather not.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Dan Weiner"<dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 11:55 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Take the dog behind the chain, then and if there is a problem you can
>>>>>> say
>>>>>> that the ODS office has given you no choice because of their
>>>>>> obstructionist
>>>>>> behavior.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They really don't sound nice, my god
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In my opinion, take your dog where it's convenient for you and
>>>>>> fornicate
>>>>>> them if they don't like it.
>>>>>> Easy for me to say right--smile--I'm not the one who has to live with
>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I just find it unconscionable, after all training with your first
>>>>>> dog
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> so stressful and now to have this idiocy you have to deal with.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of Mark J. Cadigan
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 11:48 AM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>> Cc: President at NAGDU.ORG
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you to everyone for your response.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My dog does not mind pavement relieving. The patch of pavement I am
>>>>>> using
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> public property and not owned by the school. I believe all the school
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> doing is blowing hot air.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no grass available for several blocks, and the area is not
>>>>>> safe
>>>>>> after about 10:00pm. The location I am currently using is well lit, 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> visible to the officers at the security desk of my dorm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What kinds of modifications can the school require I make to my dog's
>>>>>> relieving practices? He is going on the shoulder of the rode, in a 
>>>>>> sort
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> inlet that leads down an alley. There is a chain across the alley 
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> if
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> passed it I would be on private property. I don't go passed the 
>>>>>> chain.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am removing 95% or higher of every deposit. They are still griping 
>>>>>> at
>>>>>> me
>>>>>> for when due to no fault of my own, some remnants get stuck to the
>>>>>> pavement
>>>>>> witch can't be removed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is also a trash can within 20ft of this patch of pavement I
>>>>>> deposit
>>>>>> the bagged waist in this trash receptacle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is the policy and procedure recommended by Fidelco. The school 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> threatening to write me up for a violation of the ODS amendment to 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> student handbook. This section does not specify a punishment, so the
>>>>>> punishment would be at the discretion of the school.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am not the first student to have a guide dog on campus, however, I 
>>>>>> am
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> only one the ODS office has decided to harass. There is another 
>>>>>> student
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> my dorm with a guide dog. However her dog is much smaller than my 
>>>>>> dog,
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> a corresponding reduction in size of its deposit. This student takes
>>>>>> her
>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>
>>>>>> behind the aforementioned chain onto private property. I am not
>>>>>> comfortable
>>>>>> in doing this without the consent of the property owner. I am unable 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> determine the property owner; however, I believe it is owned by 
>>>>>> either
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> state or federal government. The property belongs to either a
>>>>>> courthouse
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> office building or perhaps both.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for your help,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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