[nagdu] Backpacking

Tue Jan 24 22:47:35 UTC 2012

Huh, last time that I checked, Tami had a poodle, not a sheep dog???

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Backpacking

> Get a couple of llamas tpo carry all the stuff and the dog could double as 
> a herder for the llamas!
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Tami Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 4:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Backpacking
>
>
>> Julie,
>>
>> Also, this is a very educational discussion. /smile/ I'm reading it all 
>> and wondering how many things I would forget to think of if I suddengly 
>> got a chance to head off on a nice backpacking trip one a natural 
>> trail...
>>
>> Which I long to do, so I'm exercising my guide dog hiking brain cells by 
>> trying to figure out how I would solve all of those things... /smile/
>>
>> People have given good answers to some of the things I haven't gotten 
>> around to thinking about, like water purification and all.
>>
>> The weight bearing part, I'm not sure of, since the dog needs food, extra 
>> food for the extra work. So would I!
>>
>> If I come up with a brilliant solution to that in light of the fact that 
>> I am but a delicate little woman, I'll be sure to clue y'all in... /grin/
>>
>> Tami
>>
>> On 01/24/2012 05:08 AM, Julie J. wrote:
>>> Abigail,
>>>
>>> What specific things are you concerned about in regard to a week long
>>> hike vs. a day trip?
>>>
>>> Is it sleeping arrangements and making sure your guide is warm and
>>> comfortable?
>>> Is it the extra weight she will need to carry and getting used to packs?
>>> Maybe working her on off road terrain?
>>> Are you concerned about interference from wildlife or illness from
>>> unpurified water?
>>>
>>> I think if you could be more specific about what your concerns are, we'd
>>> be able to offer more help.
>>>
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/23/2012 9:56 PM, Abigail Lanier wrote:
>>>> Mark,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for your response, but I am really looking for advice in
>>>> regards to hiking with a guide dog. I've done lots of camping and
>>>> hiking before I got my guide and even some short day trips with her,
>>>> but as I said in a previous message, I"m looking into a week long hike
>>>> of the Appalachian Trail this March and I want to take Alexa with me.
>>>> I'm doing lots of research and considering the pros and cons of taking
>>>> her. Her health and well being is just as important as mine.
>>>>
>>>> Abigail
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 22, 2012, at 11:30 PM, Mark J. Cadigan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I go backpacking all the time. For water purification I just use the
>>>>> purification tablets you get at any camping or army surplus store.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You can set up your tent completely independently; it just depends on
>>>>> practice, and having a small tent. Chances are, if you are
>>>>> backpacking you will have a small tent.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> For food, I like the freeze dried food. It's a lot easier to carry
>>>>> than canned food.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey
>>>>> Young"<jeff.young8806 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>> Users"<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>> Users"<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 7:20 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Backpacking
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Tami. We probably won't do any hiking in the first year, but
>>>>>> maybe some car camping.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Abigail, the biggest issue on a long trip is water. It doesn't sound
>>>>>> as though you are, but if you or anyone is backpacking in a dry
>>>>>> desert area, I would not recommend bringing a dog. The reason being
>>>>>> that you have to pack all of your own water. This can become very
>>>>>> heavy, and packing the additional water for the dog would be hard to
>>>>>> deal with. Ideally you will only need to bring two or three leaders
>>>>>> along with a water purification system. You can get water from
>>>>>> streams, but it needs to be purified so you or your dog do not
>>>>>> contract geardia. I'm sure I misspelled it, but it's also known as
>>>>>> backpackers disease. It's easy to cure when near a hospital or vet,
>>>>>> but not in the wild, especially because you won't have a functional
>>>>>> bathroom.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check with the organizer of the event to see if he or she is
>>>>>> bringing a purifier, that way you won't need to by your own. Another
>>>>>> thing is to make sure you are familiar with your own equipment. IE
>>>>>> setting up your tent on your own ETC. You will need a hand with most
>>>>>> tents, but you will need to make sure that you can do the majority
>>>>>> of the work. Everyone else on the trip will have their own
>>>>>> equipment, and having to help someone else a lot can be annoying to
>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is all stuff I learned on the trips we took. I was twelve and
>>>>>> theirteen on most of ours, and my dad came on one and basically told
>>>>>> me if I wanted to keep going I needed to be more independent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good Luck, and don't hesitate with any other questions. Also, you
>>>>>> can find a lot of first time resources online.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>> Jeff Young
>>>>>> Home of the world's healthiest energy drink. No Caffeine, no added
>>>>>> sugar. E-mail me for a free sample today.
>>>>>> Phone: (318) 243-3003
>>>>>> E-mail: jeff.young8806 at gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://actoverview.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 22, 2012, at 3:55 PM, Tami Kinney<tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jeff,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> These are all excellent suggestions of things to consider. And
>>>>>>> congratulations on your soon-to-be first child. You will certainly
>>>>>>> be too busy to go camping! /grin/ Unless you decide next year your
>>>>>>> brave enough to put the kid in a backpack and go for it. I know
>>>>>>> people who do and don't know whether to admire their courage or
>>>>>>> wonder about their sanity... Just kidding.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Another piece of good advice I got from an avid guide dog using
>>>>>>> hiker and camper was to always wear sunglasses to protect your eyes
>>>>>>> from low hanging branches, just in case. And also to wear a
>>>>>>> baseball cap, for the same reason. This is certainly something I do
>>>>>>> when using the cane on a trail, and good thing! With the tame
>>>>>>> trails we usually do, I'm not as motivated to remember when I'm
>>>>>>> using Mitzi, but I really try to make it a practice. Just in case!
>>>>>>> /smile/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've only gotten out on short day trips with Mitzi so far, but one
>>>>>>> thing I did, knowing I wanted to add more of that in the future,
>>>>>>> was to use the off leash obedience I'd taught her to give her
>>>>>>> freedom to explore the first time or two, while I used my cane to
>>>>>>> navigate and try to figure out how I planned to use her as a guide
>>>>>>> dog. So then, when I did start doing trails with her in harness, we
>>>>>>> were able to work out the kinks together pretty well. I haven't
>>>>>>> gone on any of the really good backpacking and camping trips I
>>>>>>> would like to. Yet. But I do like using more than one tool,
>>>>>>> depending on which works best in which environment. Well, and Mitzi
>>>>>>> really does do the jingle guide and squeak guide thing, in addition
>>>>>>> to leash guiding, so that gives us a lot of flexibility.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That wouldn't work for everybody and every dog, though, so on a
>>>>>>> safety first basis: Don't do it unless you're sure your dog will be
>>>>>>> safe. Honestly, I can't see myself trying it at all with a
>>>>>>> program-trained dog, simply because the pups are protected and
>>>>>>> streamlined for guide work, not for running wild and free in the
>>>>>>> wilderness... Mitzi ran free with a big pack o' poodles and other
>>>>>>> dogs until she was 7 months, so the other dogs taught her the
>>>>>>> fundamentals of doggy safety. That made socializing her and all in
>>>>>>> the city quite the adventure, but it has given me a lot of freedom
>>>>>>> to train from the beginning towards the outdoor life. She does
>>>>>>> really well at city slicker stuff now, of course, but that doesn't
>>>>>>> mean we can't throw off our fancy duds and hit the trail! /lol/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One way to work with a dog without risking letting it run off leash
>>>>>>> where it doesn't know the dangers or might get too excited and run
>>>>>>> off and forget to come back would perhaps be to do some long leash
>>>>>>> work with dog while you use your cane. Our dogs are about as not
>>>>>>> stupid as dogs can be, after all, and they really do seem to grasp
>>>>>>> that their purpose in our lives is our safety and theirs. So giving
>>>>>>> the dog a chance to observe some of the special obstacles and other
>>>>>>> challenges of hiking a trail could be to give the dog an
>>>>>>> opportunity to watch you take them on and figure it out with your
>>>>>>> cane. If that makes sense. Also, I have found it to be a good way
>>>>>>> to plan *how* I want to hike with my guide when the time comes that
>>>>>>> she will be in harness and I will be using a rigid cane or trekking
>>>>>>> pole in the other hand for gauging distances up and down.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If that makes sense. /smile/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tami
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 01/22/2012 12:09 PM, Jeffrey Young wrote:
>>>>>>>> So I have done extensive backpacking as a boy scout, but I haven't
>>>>>>>> had a chance to do any with my guideDog. One thing I'd recommend
>>>>>>>> is to bring a cane along. A good sturdy cane not a telescoping
>>>>>>>> one. The cane would serve two purposes. One as a walking stick.
>>>>>>>> Most backpackers use a walking stick. A walking stick is
>>>>>>>> especially useful on steep rough terrain.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Secondly, when hiking you may encounter many obstacles that your
>>>>>>>> dog might not normally encounter. You can use the cane to explore
>>>>>>>> the obstruction before moving on. Also, make sure your dog is well
>>>>>>>> fortified against flees and especially ticks. I don't remember if
>>>>>>>> you said in the first email, but you might want to find out how
>>>>>>>> rough the hiking will be and how many miles per day you will need
>>>>>>>> to travel.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you and your dog only travel a mile or two a day on city
>>>>>>>> sidewalks and you are expected to travel six or seven miles a day
>>>>>>>> on the trip, then this could pose a challenge of potentially
>>>>>>>> overworking your dog as well as yourself.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I could probably come up with some other tips, but I don't want to
>>>>>>>> ramble to much. If you have any general backpacking questions feel
>>>>>>>> free to let me know. Also, I'm sure we have some other backpackers
>>>>>>>> on the list.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I should add that I can't wait to take Hansel on a trip, but we
>>>>>>>> are having our first child in August, so their won't be much, if
>>>>>>>> any camping this summer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jeff and Hansel
>>>>>>>> Jeff Young
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Home of the world's healthiest energy drink. No Caffeine, no added
>>>>>>>> sugar. Email me for a free sample today.
>>>>>>>> Phone: (318) 243-3003
>>>>>>>> E-mail: jeff.young8806 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> Website: http://jhyrumyoung.drinkactweb.com/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 22, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Abigail Lanier wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Julie,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The book's title is "Blind Courage" and I am going to try and get
>>>>>>>>> a copy of it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The good news is that I already live in the mountains of North
>>>>>>>>> Carolina and Alexa and I are fairly used to hills and such. We
>>>>>>>>> have done some hiking, but I wouldn't say that we are well
>>>>>>>>> seasoned or experienced hikers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'll let you know of our "progress" :-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Abigail
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jan 22, 2012, at 9:01 AM, Julie J. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Abigail,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have been backpacking, but not with my guide. The trip I went
>>>>>>>>>> on was 5 days in Colorado in the Rockies. I'd estimate the pack
>>>>>>>>>> I carried was 50 pounds or so. It was just about all I could do
>>>>>>>>>> to carry the thing. *smile* Of course that was just my stuff. I
>>>>>>>>>> agree with Nicole to have your guide carry her own food.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My suggestion would be to get a pack for yourself and for your
>>>>>>>>>> guide now and start building up your strength to carry it. Add
>>>>>>>>>> in a little more weight each day, practicing going up and down
>>>>>>>>>> stairs to simulate mountain hiking. Your guide won't be used to
>>>>>>>>>> carrying weight and will also need to build up strength to be
>>>>>>>>>> able to do so comfortably. There are a lot of web sites that
>>>>>>>>>> talk about dog backpacking, you could check out some of them to
>>>>>>>>>> get an idea of how much the maximum weight is that your guide
>>>>>>>>>> could potentially carry. I'd subtract a bit from that because
>>>>>>>>>> guiding is work too.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There is a book about a guy who hiked the entire Appalachian
>>>>>>>>>> trail with his guide dog. NLS has it. I want to say it was
>>>>>>>>>> called, "Blind Courage" but I could be misremembering. I've read
>>>>>>>>>> a load of dog books and they sometimes get cross-wired in my
>>>>>>>>>> head! *smile*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Best of luck,
>>>>>>>>>> Julie
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>
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