[nagdu] Backpacking

Abigail Lanier lanier.abigail at gmail.com
Wed Jan 25 05:53:54 UTC 2012 

I have no idea! It did make my day, however, in addition to my normal morning fix of caffeine.


On Jan 25, 2012, at 12:37 AM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote:

> Giggle. What was a pig doing there???
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Abigail Lanier" <lanier.abigail at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 9:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Backpacking
> 
> 
>> Speaking of llamas, I was walking into my local coffee shop yesterday when
>> Alexa and I encountered a pig. Yes, you know the kind, the small, some
>> times pink, curly-q tail, oinking piggie. I do live in the mountains of
>> North Carolina where most anything goes, but this experience really had me
>> giggling. It was kind of sad though, because there I was, the only human
>> around to my knowledge, standing in the rain with my perplexed canine and
>> a pig.
>> 
>> On Jan 24, 2012, at 5:37 PM, Larry D. Keeler wrote:
>> 
>>> Get a couple of llamas tpo carry all the stuff and the dog could double
>>> as a herder for the llamas!
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tami Kinney"
>>> <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 4:13 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Backpacking
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Julie,
>>>> 
>>>> Also, this is a very educational discussion. /smile/ I'm reading it all
>>>> and wondering how many things I would forget to think of if I suddengly
>>>> got a chance to head off on a nice backpacking trip one a natural
>>>> trail...
>>>> 
>>>> Which I long to do, so I'm exercising my guide dog hiking brain cells by
>>>> trying to figure out how I would solve all of those things... /smile/
>>>> 
>>>> People have given good answers to some of the things I haven't gotten
>>>> around to thinking about, like water purification and all.
>>>> 
>>>> The weight bearing part, I'm not sure of, since the dog needs food,
>>>> extra food for the extra work. So would I!
>>>> 
>>>> If I come up with a brilliant solution to that in light of the fact that
>>>> I am but a delicate little woman, I'll be sure to clue y'all in...
>>>> /grin/
>>>> 
>>>> Tami
>>>> 
>>>> On 01/24/2012 05:08 AM, Julie J. wrote:
>>>>> Abigail,
>>>>> 
>>>>> What specific things are you concerned about in regard to a week long
>>>>> hike vs. a day trip?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Is it sleeping arrangements and making sure your guide is warm and
>>>>> comfortable?
>>>>> Is it the extra weight she will need to carry and getting used to
>>>>> packs?
>>>>> Maybe working her on off road terrain?
>>>>> Are you concerned about interference from wildlife or illness from
>>>>> unpurified water?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think if you could be more specific about what your concerns are,
>>>>> we'd
>>>>> be able to offer more help.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Julie
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 1/23/2012 9:56 PM, Abigail Lanier wrote:
>>>>>> Mark,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thank you for your response, but I am really looking for advice in
>>>>>> regards to hiking with a guide dog. I've done lots of camping and
>>>>>> hiking before I got my guide and even some short day trips with her,
>>>>>> but as I said in a previous message, I"m looking into a week long hike
>>>>>> of the Appalachian Trail this March and I want to take Alexa with me.
>>>>>> I'm doing lots of research and considering the pros and cons of taking
>>>>>> her. Her health and well being is just as important as mine.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Abigail
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 22, 2012, at 11:30 PM, Mark J. Cadigan wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I go backpacking all the time. For water purification I just use the
>>>>>>> purification tablets you get at any camping or army surplus store.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> You can set up your tent completely independently; it just depends on
>>>>>>> practice, and having a small tent. Chances are, if you are
>>>>>>> backpacking you will have a small tent.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> For food, I like the freeze dried food. It's a lot easier to carry
>>>>>>> than canned food.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey
>>>>>>> Young"<jeff.young8806 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>> Users"<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Cc: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>> Users"<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 7:20 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Backpacking
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks Tami. We probably won't do any hiking in the first year, but
>>>>>>>> maybe some car camping.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Abigail, the biggest issue on a long trip is water. It doesn't sound
>>>>>>>> as though you are, but if you or anyone is backpacking in a dry
>>>>>>>> desert area, I would not recommend bringing a dog. The reason being
>>>>>>>> that you have to pack all of your own water. This can become very
>>>>>>>> heavy, and packing the additional water for the dog would be hard to
>>>>>>>> deal with. Ideally you will only need to bring two or three leaders
>>>>>>>> along with a water purification system. You can get water from
>>>>>>>> streams, but it needs to be purified so you or your dog do not
>>>>>>>> contract geardia. I'm sure I misspelled it, but it's also known as
>>>>>>>> backpackers disease. It's easy to cure when near a hospital or vet,
>>>>>>>> but not in the wild, especially because you won't have a functional
>>>>>>>> bathroom.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Check with the organizer of the event to see if he or she is
>>>>>>>> bringing a purifier, that way you won't need to by your own. Another
>>>>>>>> thing is to make sure you are familiar with your own equipment. IE
>>>>>>>> setting up your tent on your own ETC. You will need a hand with most
>>>>>>>> tents, but you will need to make sure that you can do the majority
>>>>>>>> of the work. Everyone else on the trip will have their own
>>>>>>>> equipment, and having to help someone else a lot can be annoying to
>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> This is all stuff I learned on the trips we took. I was twelve and
>>>>>>>> theirteen on most of ours, and my dad came on one and basically told
>>>>>>>> me if I wanted to keep going I needed to be more independent.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Good Luck, and don't hesitate with any other questions. Also, you
>>>>>>>> can find a lot of first time resources online.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>> Jeff Young
>>>>>>>> Home of the world's healthiest energy drink. No Caffeine, no added
>>>>>>>> sugar. E-mail me for a free sample today.
>>>>>>>> Phone: (318) 243-3003
>>>>>>>> E-mail: jeff.young8806 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> http://actoverview.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Jan 22, 2012, at 3:55 PM, Tami Kinney<tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Jeff,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> These are all excellent suggestions of things to consider. And
>>>>>>>>> congratulations on your soon-to-be first child. You will certainly
>>>>>>>>> be too busy to go camping! /grin/ Unless you decide next year your
>>>>>>>>> brave enough to put the kid in a backpack and go for it. I know
>>>>>>>>> people who do and don't know whether to admire their courage or
>>>>>>>>> wonder about their sanity... Just kidding.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Another piece of good advice I got from an avid guide dog using
>>>>>>>>> hiker and camper was to always wear sunglasses to protect your eyes
>>>>>>>>> from low hanging branches, just in case. And also to wear a
>>>>>>>>> baseball cap, for the same reason. This is certainly something I do
>>>>>>>>> when using the cane on a trail, and good thing! With the tame
>>>>>>>>> trails we usually do, I'm not as motivated to remember when I'm
>>>>>>>>> using Mitzi, but I really try to make it a practice. Just in case!
>>>>>>>>> /smile/
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I've only gotten out on short day trips with Mitzi so far, but one
>>>>>>>>> thing I did, knowing I wanted to add more of that in the future,
>>>>>>>>> was to use the off leash obedience I'd taught her to give her
>>>>>>>>> freedom to explore the first time or two, while I used my cane to
>>>>>>>>> navigate and try to figure out how I planned to use her as a guide
>>>>>>>>> dog. So then, when I did start doing trails with her in harness, we
>>>>>>>>> were able to work out the kinks together pretty well. I haven't
>>>>>>>>> gone on any of the really good backpacking and camping trips I
>>>>>>>>> would like to. Yet. But I do like using more than one tool,
>>>>>>>>> depending on which works best in which environment. Well, and Mitzi
>>>>>>>>> really does do the jingle guide and squeak guide thing, in addition
>>>>>>>>> to leash guiding, so that gives us a lot of flexibility.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> That wouldn't work for everybody and every dog, though, so on a
>>>>>>>>> safety first basis: Don't do it unless you're sure your dog will be
>>>>>>>>> safe. Honestly, I can't see myself trying it at all with a
>>>>>>>>> program-trained dog, simply because the pups are protected and
>>>>>>>>> streamlined for guide work, not for running wild and free in the
>>>>>>>>> wilderness... Mitzi ran free with a big pack o' poodles and other
>>>>>>>>> dogs until she was 7 months, so the other dogs taught her the
>>>>>>>>> fundamentals of doggy safety. That made socializing her and all in
>>>>>>>>> the city quite the adventure, but it has given me a lot of freedom
>>>>>>>>> to train from the beginning towards the outdoor life. She does
>>>>>>>>> really well at city slicker stuff now, of course, but that doesn't
>>>>>>>>> mean we can't throw off our fancy duds and hit the trail! /lol/
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> One way to work with a dog without risking letting it run off leash
>>>>>>>>> where it doesn't know the dangers or might get too excited and run
>>>>>>>>> off and forget to come back would perhaps be to do some long leash
>>>>>>>>> work with dog while you use your cane. Our dogs are about as not
>>>>>>>>> stupid as dogs can be, after all, and they really do seem to grasp
>>>>>>>>> that their purpose in our lives is our safety and theirs. So giving
>>>>>>>>> the dog a chance to observe some of the special obstacles and other
>>>>>>>>> challenges of hiking a trail could be to give the dog an
>>>>>>>>> opportunity to watch you take them on and figure it out with your
>>>>>>>>> cane. If that makes sense. Also, I have found it to be a good way
>>>>>>>>> to plan *how* I want to hike with my guide when the time comes that
>>>>>>>>> she will be in harness and I will be using a rigid cane or trekking
>>>>>>>>> pole in the other hand for gauging distances up and down.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> If that makes sense. /smile/
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Tami
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 01/22/2012 12:09 PM, Jeffrey Young wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> So I have done extensive backpacking as a boy scout, but I haven't
>>>>>>>>>> had a chance to do any with my guideDog. One thing I'd recommend
>>>>>>>>>> is to bring a cane along. A good sturdy cane not a telescoping
>>>>>>>>>> one. The cane would serve two purposes. One as a walking stick.
>>>>>>>>>> Most backpackers use a walking stick. A walking stick is
>>>>>>>>>> especially useful on steep rough terrain.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Secondly, when hiking you may encounter many obstacles that your
>>>>>>>>>> dog might not normally encounter. You can use the cane to explore
>>>>>>>>>> the obstruction before moving on. Also, make sure your dog is well
>>>>>>>>>> fortified against flees and especially ticks. I don't remember if
>>>>>>>>>> you said in the first email, but you might want to find out how
>>>>>>>>>> rough the hiking will be and how many miles per day you will need
>>>>>>>>>> to travel.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> If you and your dog only travel a mile or two a day on city
>>>>>>>>>> sidewalks and you are expected to travel six or seven miles a day
>>>>>>>>>> on the trip, then this could pose a challenge of potentially
>>>>>>>>>> overworking your dog as well as yourself.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I could probably come up with some other tips, but I don't want to
>>>>>>>>>> ramble to much. If you have any general backpacking questions feel
>>>>>>>>>> free to let me know. Also, I'm sure we have some other backpackers
>>>>>>>>>> on the list.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I should add that I can't wait to take Hansel on a trip, but we
>>>>>>>>>> are having our first child in August, so their won't be much, if
>>>>>>>>>> any camping this summer.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Jeff and Hansel
>>>>>>>>>> Jeff Young
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Home of the world's healthiest energy drink. No Caffeine, no added
>>>>>>>>>> sugar. Email me for a free sample today.
>>>>>>>>>> Phone: (318) 243-3003
>>>>>>>>>> E-mail: jeff.young8806 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>> Website: http://jhyrumyoung.drinkactweb.com/
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 22, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Abigail Lanier wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Julie,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> The book's title is "Blind Courage" and I am going to try and get
>>>>>>>>>>> a copy of it.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> The good news is that I already live in the mountains of North
>>>>>>>>>>> Carolina and Alexa and I are fairly used to hills and such. We
>>>>>>>>>>> have done some hiking, but I wouldn't say that we are well
>>>>>>>>>>> seasoned or experienced hikers.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I'll let you know of our "progress" :-)
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Abigail
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 22, 2012, at 9:01 AM, Julie J. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Abigail,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been backpacking, but not with my guide. The trip I went
>>>>>>>>>>>> on was 5 days in Colorado in the Rockies. I'd estimate the pack
>>>>>>>>>>>> I carried was 50 pounds or so. It was just about all I could do
>>>>>>>>>>>> to carry the thing. *smile* Of course that was just my stuff. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> agree with Nicole to have your guide carry her own food.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> My suggestion would be to get a pack for yourself and for your
>>>>>>>>>>>> guide now and start building up your strength to carry it. Add
>>>>>>>>>>>> in a little more weight each day, practicing going up and down
>>>>>>>>>>>> stairs to simulate mountain hiking. Your guide won't be used to
>>>>>>>>>>>> carrying weight and will also need to build up strength to be
>>>>>>>>>>>> able to do so comfortably. There are a lot of web sites that
>>>>>>>>>>>> talk about dog backpacking, you could check out some of them to
>>>>>>>>>>>> get an idea of how much the maximum weight is that your guide
>>>>>>>>>>>> could potentially carry. I'd subtract a bit from that because
>>>>>>>>>>>> guiding is work too.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> There is a book about a guy who hiked the entire Appalachian
>>>>>>>>>>>> trail with his guide dog. NLS has it. I want to say it was
>>>>>>>>>>>> called, "Blind Courage" but I could be misremembering. I've read
>>>>>>>>>>>> a load of dog books and they sometimes get cross-wired in my
>>>>>>>>>>>> head! *smile*
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Best of luck,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Julie
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>> 
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