[nagdu] Third party reporting by other guide dog users

Sat Jun 9 21:44:22 UTC 2012

I think it would be sort of rude to report a user from a list.  Because the 
list members are using the list to get input as to handle such issues as 
handling, medical or training issues.  The fact that most write to a list is 
to check and evaluate what others have experienced.  And, the issue might 
not be there issue but someone elses.  If I observed the behavior and judged 
it serious, then, I would report.  Maybe if I knew the person I might ask 
them about it but for me to report it it would have to be really obvious!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Laurel" <laurel.stockard at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 5:23 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Third party reporting by other guide dog users


> Personally, I would only report another guide dog user if it was a
> huge issue, such as their guide dog attacked mine, or they were
> clearly abusing their dog, or their life or the dog's life was clearly
> in danger. Example of this would be if I saw somebody beating their
> dog or something crazy that I know none of you all would ever even
> think about doing. I would never report somebody just because they did
> things differently. I might disagree with a way that another handler
> might do something, but ultimately, it's none of my business how other
> people decide to handle their dogs.
>
> I have seen people try to report other people though. I have observed
> situations where people didn't agree with a specific individuals
> course of action in a particular situation and because of that they
> attempted to make this person's life hell. All I will say on the topic
> is, if a person is mature enough and responsible enough to have a
> guide, and is probably an adult, then act like it. Treat people the
> way you wanna be treated. I have seen this happen and I've seen how
> nasty it can get.
>
> Anyway, yes, this does happen, most of the time without merritt, but
> on occasion I would say there are good reasons to report somebody. I
> would never report somebody though unless I was absolutely, 100% sure
> that something horrible was going on.
> Anyway, hope that sort of answers your question,
> Laurel and Stockard
>
> On 6/9/12, Larry D. Keeler <lkeeler at comcast.net> wrote:
>> Not me!  I would only report on really big issues that I have observed.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tami Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 1:30 PM
>> Subject: [nagdu] Third party reporting by other guide dog users
>>
>>
>>> My question is this: Do guide dog users routinely report other guide dog
>>> users to their training program and trainer for minor mishaps mentioned 
>>> on
>>>
>>> discussion lists. Or because the guide dog user being reported doesn't 
>>> use
>>>
>>> the collar the reporter believes they should use, stuff like that? And 
>>> do
>>>
>>> they do it in a way that makes the one they are reporting sound super
>>> irresponsible and unwilling to listen to help? For that matter, would 
>>> most
>>>
>>> trainers take these reports seriously, over the information given by the
>>> guide dog user who has been reported to them?
>>>
>>> Okay, here's my long explanation behind the questions:
>>>
>>> Since I'm an owner-trainer, the notion that another guide dog user might
>>> report me to my trainer for any reason has never troubled my fluffy 
>>> little
>>>
>>> head before.
>>>
>>> Only I recently found out that this sort of thing actually happens! Not
>>> for witnessed events of great severity as some of the "what would you 
>>> do"
>>>
>>> discussions of awhile ago, where there was a scenario involving one 
>>> guide
>>>
>>> dog attacking another and causing injury and another involving a guide 
>>> dog
>>>
>>> user reportedly regularly blowing a street crossing so badly as to cause
>>> risk of traffic accidents in addition to putting himself and his dog in
>>> danger. In those, I think a few people raised the notion of getting in
>>> touch with the guide dog user's school but I don't remember that there 
>>> was
>>>
>>> a consensus that this would be an appropriate course of action. They 
>>> were
>>>
>>> "what if" questions, so no consensus was needed. /smile/
>>>
>>> Anyway, I'm pretty shocked to learn that there are guide dog users who
>>> will report other guide dog users for blurbs on e-mail discussion lists.
>>> Not this one, but it recently happened. And now I find out it has 
>>> happened
>>>
>>> before, with the same group of people doing the reporting.
>>>
>>> So, let's say that I mention in that group that Mitzi did X in random
>>> chatter, thinking I was among friends. Suddenly, some people are asking 
>>> me
>>>
>>> questions, which I answer to clear things up... Then they start insist
>>> that I said something 3 months ago that contradicts what I just said 
>>> about
>>>
>>> what Mitzi did yesterday, and then I get upset and rattled and try to
>>> clear things up.... So then there's blood in the water.
>>>
>>> Next thing I know, I get a letter from my trainer about what I said on 
>>> the
>>>
>>> list and then another one which is where I find out people from this 
>>> group
>>>
>>> have been getting in touch with him/her repeatedly about how they're
>>> helping me but I won't listen and stuff like that, because I don't do
>>> exactly what they tell me to do faithfully no matter what it is.
>>>
>>> Since I know the people involved and the dog in question fairly well, I
>>> wasn't surprised by the verbal attack by a certain few members of the
>>> group. Sigh. Maybe they do think they're helping, but... Um... Oh, well. 
>>> I
>>>
>>> was just shocked to learn that one or more of them would go so far as to
>>> call the trainer on another user because of a blip on a list. Sheesh! I
>>> guess that this actually goes on in that group. Heavens! Oddly, the
>>> "helpers" there chat a lot on that list and go to the same school and 
>>> have
>>>
>>> the same trainer... Which makes me wonder if they should get a great big
>>> van and fill it with crates and take the whole lot of dogs back to 
>>> school.
>>>
>>> /lol/ I'm delving in sarcasm there, but the list of things I can recall
>>> that these helpful guide dog users have reported their dogs getting up 
>>> to
>>>
>>> are fairly amazing. They're all relatively new dogs, young dogs, so I 
>>> tend
>>>
>>> to figure the handlers are getting it worked out and can figure out for
>>> themselves if they need to contact the trainer. But, I guess, If I were 
>>> to
>>>
>>> follow their fine example... No, of course, I won't do that. That's just
>>> so... Tacky! /lol/
>>>
>>> So my question is: Does this actually go on? Do guide dog users report
>>> other guide dog users just to be manipulative and retaliatory or 
>>> whatever?
>>>
>>> Even if it's clearly stated that the guide dog user they are reporting 
>>> is
>>>
>>> in contact with the trainer over the matter they mention?
>>>
>>> Well, I'm suddenly feeling really smug that if any of these folks want 
>>> to
>>>
>>> report me to my trainer, they are welcome to! My trainer will treat 
>>> their
>>>
>>> reports with all the attention they deserve.
>>>
>>> Oh, they've helped me, too! By explaining sternly that I should never
>>> stick sharp metal implements into my poodle's ear canals... I'm not 
>>> making
>>>
>>> that up. I mean, that is a true statement, I can agree to that. 
>>> However...
>>>
>>> Do I *look* that stupid? /lol/ I kinda figured that one out on my own
>>> years ago, so I don't know that telling me to do something I know better
>>> than to do is helpful. I've been helped to understand the bus routes
>>> around my home. Again, apparently, I really am too stupid to work that 
>>> out
>>>
>>> on my own somehow... Sheesh!
>>>
>>> So I haven't fallen all over myself in gratitude or listened, really... 
>>> So
>>>
>>> I could be reported, I am sure! Well, and I don't have a certified 
>>> guide,
>>>
>>> no ID card to flash... Why would I owner-train when I could get a
>>> certified guide dog? Um... For those who are relatively new enough to 
>>> have
>>>
>>> not read any of those discussions, there is no such thing as a certified
>>> guide dog in terms of the ADA and access to places of public
>>> accommodation. The guide dog training programs must be certified for the
>>> consumer's protection. The trainers must also be certified to work at 
>>> the
>>>
>>> certified guide dog training program. The dogs are not certified. The 
>>> nice
>>>
>>> ID cards often have the relevant portions of the law printed on them,
>>> which does make them useful. They do not grant you access to anything at
>>> all, and it is illegal for anyone to ask you to show them. /smile/ It's
>>> your dog's training for your disability that counts, and your dog's good
>>> behavior, etc., once you walk into a place. But I have a feeling I am
>>> being "taught by example" for being the other guide dog user's friend 
>>> and
>>>
>>> for being an owner-trainer by having things addressed to me that make a
>>> point of mentioning the flashing of ID cards. /lol/ I've never even said
>>> there what I *really* think of that practice! It's anyone's choice what
>>> they do with the ID card from their school, so why get uptight about it?
>>> /lol/
>>>
>>> Tami
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
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