[nagdu] Third party reporting by other guide dog users

Sun Jun 10 13:30:55 UTC 2012

 i some times have my partner go beside me when 'm working with mya.
 it works fine.

On Jun 10, 2012, at 2:04 AM, Ann Edie wrote:

> Hi, Dar,
> 
> It never occurred to me that the guide dog programs would object to someone
> letting a family member take their hand or arm while they were walking with
> their guide dog.  When I got my first guide dog from TSE, my children were
> small.  My daughter was not yet five years old.  I often walked with my
> guide and with my daughter holding my right hand.  The guide dog adjusted
> his pace for the slower pace of my daughter.  And the dog also quickly
> learned to judge clearances for both of us.  I have also heard of people
> pulling a baby stroller behind them with the right hand while using their
> guide dog.  I can't remember exactly, because this was many years ago that I
> got my first guide, but I'm sure that I spoke with the trainers at TSE about
> walking with my dog and my child, and we may even have practiced this on a
> visiting day when my daughter was brought to the school to spend some time
> with me.
> 
> Of course, now that I have Panda, I can make my own decisions as to how and
> with whom I use my guide, and as long as Panda is cool with it, we're good
> to go!
> 
> Best,
> Ann
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of d m gina
> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 10:56 AM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Third party reporting by other guide dog users
> 
> Hi Tammy
> I have been turned in to the school before.
> I had a trainer come out and ask if they could take a walk with me, I said
> sure why not.
> I had just come home from mass, so we had been out for a walk for awhile
> anyway.
> As we were walking the trainer said you guys are doing well, I have a
> question.
> Sure I say, and then I was asked,
> "Do you let your husband take your arm in walking?"
> I said yes, my husband has no toes, needs the extra help, and he goes out so
> little it doesn't effect the dog at all.
> We might go a block and that is it.
> all the traveling for the home needs are the dogs and my traveling.
> then I shared,
> if you want to take the dog, that is fine, my husband comes first.
> I shared that if I felt my dog was under stress I wouldn't have done it this
> way.
> I did ask if then I gave the persons name called over.
> he said yes, I have to be honest with you, because you were honest with me.
> He told me he wasn't going to take my dog, because she looked so happy with
> what she was doing that he wasn't going to do this at all.
> Now what my Jim does if we are in the mall is hang on to my back pack purse,
> and the dog has no clue they are guiding two persons.
> He just watches for me.
> Then when we get help from the folks in the mall, my husband hangs on to
> them and we follow.
> I don't mind at all if persons have time to call on my behalf, because I
> have to much in life to take care of, and feel for the most part I can take
> care of my own problems.
> If I feel I really have a problem then I personally will call the school I
> am working with.
> Hope this answers your question.
> glad I wrote this, one breath I would have pass out by now giggle.
> Original message:
>> My question is this: Do guide dog users routinely report other guide 
>> dog users to their training program and trainer for minor mishaps 
>> mentioned on discussion lists. Or because the guide dog user being 
>> reported doesn't use the collar the reporter believes they should use, 
>> stuff like that? And do they do it in a way that makes the one they 
>> are reporting sound super irresponsible and unwilling to listen to 
>> help? For that matter, would most trainers take these reports 
>> seriously, over the information given by the guide dog user who has been
> reported to them?
> 
>> Okay, here's my long explanation behind the questions:
> 
>> Since I'm an owner-trainer, the notion that another guide dog user 
>> might report me to my trainer for any reason has never troubled my 
>> fluffy little head before.
> 
>> Only I recently found out that this sort of thing actually happens! 
>> Not for witnessed events of great severity as some of the "what would 
>> you do" discussions of awhile ago, where there was a scenario 
>> involving one guide dog attacking another and causing injury and 
>> another involving a guide dog user reportedly regularly blowing a 
>> street crossing so badly as to cause risk of traffic accidents in 
>> addition to putting himself and his dog in danger. In those, I think a 
>> few people raised the notion of getting in touch with the guide dog 
>> user's school but I don't remember that there was a consensus that 
>> this would be an appropriate course of action. They were "what if" 
>> questions, so no consensus was needed. /smile/
> 
>> Anyway, I'm pretty shocked to learn that there are guide dog users who 
>> will report other guide dog users for blurbs on e-mail discussion lists.
>> Not this one, but it recently happened. And now I find out it has 
>> happened before, with the same group of people doing the reporting.
> 
>> So, let's say that I mention in that group that Mitzi did X in random 
>> chatter, thinking I was among friends. Suddenly, some people are 
>> asking me questions, which I answer to clear things up... Then they 
>> start insist that I said something 3 months ago that contradicts what 
>> I just said about what Mitzi did yesterday, and then I get upset and 
>> rattled and try to clear things up.... So then there's blood in the water.
> 
>> Next thing I know, I get a letter from my trainer about what I said on 
>> the list and then another one which is where I find out people from 
>> this group have been getting in touch with him/her repeatedly about 
>> how they're helping me but I won't listen and stuff like that, because 
>> I don't do exactly what they tell me to do faithfully no matter what it
> is.
> 
>> Since I know the people involved and the dog in question fairly well, 
>> I wasn't surprised by the verbal attack by a certain few members of 
>> the group. Sigh. Maybe they do think they're helping, but... Um... Oh,
> well.
>> I was just shocked to learn that one or more of them would go so far 
>> as to call the trainer on another user because of a blip on a list.
> Sheesh!
>> I guess that this actually goes on in that group. Heavens! Oddly, the 
>> "helpers" there chat a lot on that list and go to the same school and 
>> have the same trainer... Which makes me wonder if they should get a 
>> great big van and fill it with crates and take the whole lot of dogs 
>> back to school. /lol/ I'm delving in sarcasm there, but the list of 
>> things I can recall that these helpful guide dog users have reported 
>> their dogs getting up to are fairly amazing. They're all relatively 
>> new dogs, young dogs, so I tend to figure the handlers are getting it 
>> worked out and can figure out for themselves if they need to contact 
>> the trainer. But, I guess, If I were to follow their fine example... 
>> No, of course, I won't do that. That's just so... Tacky! /lol/
> 
>> So my question is: Does this actually go on? Do guide dog users report 
>> other guide dog users just to be manipulative and retaliatory or 
>> whatever? Even if it's clearly stated that the guide dog user they are 
>> reporting is in contact with the trainer over the matter they mention?
> 
>> Well, I'm suddenly feeling really smug that if any of these folks want 
>> to report me to my trainer, they are welcome to! My trainer will treat 
>> their reports with all the attention they deserve.
> 
>> Oh, they've helped me, too! By explaining sternly that I should never 
>> stick sharp metal implements into my poodle's ear canals... I'm not 
>> making that up. I mean, that is a true statement, I can agree to that.
>> However... Do I *look* that stupid? /lol/ I kinda figured that one out 
>> on my own years ago, so I don't know that telling me to do something I 
>> know better than to do is helpful. I've been helped to understand the 
>> bus routes around my home. Again, apparently, I really am too stupid 
>> to work that out on my own somehow... Sheesh!
> 
>> So I haven't fallen all over myself in gratitude or listened, really...
>> So I could be reported, I am sure! Well, and I don't have a certified 
>> guide, no ID card to flash... Why would I owner-train when I could get 
>> a certified guide dog? Um... For those who are relatively new enough 
>> to have not read any of those discussions, there is no such thing as a 
>> certified guide dog in terms of the ADA and access to places of public 
>> accommodation. The guide dog training programs must be certified for 
>> the consumer's protection. The trainers must also be certified to work 
>> at the certified guide dog training program. The dogs are not certified.
>> The nice ID cards often have the relevant portions of the law printed 
>> on them, which does make them useful. They do not grant you access to 
>> anything at all, and it is illegal for anyone to ask you to show them.
>> /smile/ It's your dog's training for your disability that counts, and 
>> your dog's good behavior, etc., once you walk into a place. But I have 
>> a feeling I am being "taught by example" for being the other guide dog 
>> user's friend and for being an owner-trainer by having things 
>> addressed to me that make a point of mentioning the flashing of ID 
>> cards. /lol/ I've never even said there what I *really* think of that 
>> practice! It's anyone's choice what they do with the ID card from 
>> their school, so why get uptight about it? /lol/
> 
>> Tami
> 
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> --
> --Dar
> skype: dmgina23
>  FB: dmgina
> www.twitter.com/dmgina
> every saint has a past
> every sinner has a future
> 
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