[nagdu] Altercation on the bus yesterday - who "wins"?

Thu Jun 21 15:04:03 UTC 2012

 I had a kind of strange parentransit. trip.
 i was coming  from visiting a friend,
 last night,
 and the driver, freaked out mya.
 i tried to stay calm.
 but he wasn't from here.
 we are doing all right now.
 but it was scary.

On Jun 21, 2012, at 7:10 AM, Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) wrote:

> Yes.
> Not dog related but we were at the beach last weekend. I asked the lady who ran the hotel we stayed at about lifeguards.  There weren't any and she turned to my husband and said something like "It's fine for the little one to swim if you (meaning him) are there".
> This lady didn't own the beach. She had no authority there.  My husband isn't a good swimmer and lacks confidence.  He often doesn't know when it's time to get out of the water.  I say all this to convey that I was the one making sure my daughter was fine.
> It wasn't worth explaining this to the hotel lady. She was sweet and I'd recommend that hotel if people wanted it. She just didn't have a clue about how I do things.  It wasn't worth trying to explain or even to get upset about. I asked the hotel lady about the info I needed and we went on our way.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 6:50 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Altercation on the bus yesterday - who "wins"?
> 
> Jenny,
> 
> It takes at least two people to argue.  If you don't argue back, then
> there is no argument.
> 
> I always wonder if it is truly necessary to educate or get in our say or
> whatever every single time someone says something about the dog?  I mean
> this honestly.  If the other person has no authority to do anything and
> we have no interest in a relationship with this person, is it important
> for them to understand anything about us?
> 
> I don't mean that we should give into whatever demands the other person
> is making or change our plans.  I mean why can't we just continue on
> doing whatever and ignore the other person's inappropriateness?  Surely
> if the man with the guide dog had made a single statement like, "okay,
> I'm headed to the back anyway" and then moved on, the woman would have
> been left arguing with no one and looking like a bigger fool than she
> already did.
> 
> Anyway I say conserve your energy for the things that are a really big
> deal and let the rest of the crap slide on by.
> 
> JMO
> Julie
> 
> 
> On 6/7/2012 5:08 PM, Jenny Keller wrote:
>> thank you for your input.  No, there was no inhailers or wheesing or anything going on, just a big argument, both between the man with the guide and the woman in the wheelchair, and then when the bus driver told them to cut it out, she began to argue with him.
>> 
>> Had I been him, and she began to argue with me, I'd have put her out, wheelchair or not.
>> 
>> I believe that had someone who wasn't disabled raised that much fuss on the bus, and argued that much with a driver, that person would've been put out of the bus then and there.  I feel that she should've been treated the same way, disabled or not.
>> 
>> we can't behaved badly or rudely making scenes with others and even the driver, who is trying to get us where we need to go safely, and at that point, probably watching the rearview mirror to make sure everything was safe inside the bus too, just because we're in a wheelchair or have a dog, or have a cane.
>> 
>> In short, I felt like that kind of distraction caused by the two arguing and then the woman arguing with the driver, was simply unsafe for all of the passengers on the bus, as he could've been so distracted that it caused an accident.  fortunately it didn't, but the drivers of public transportation can't be distracted by people, disabled or not, by people who behave badly for any reason.
>> 
>> As I've said before, if a non-disabled person probably would've been put off the bus, I feel like she should've gotten the same treatment.
>> 
>> Jenny
>> On Jun 7, 2012, at 1:07 AM, Dailyah Patt wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Jenny and all,
>>> 
>>> As a sighted person who has a service dog (not a guide) and uses a wheelchair, as well as being the director of a legal advocacy program focused on service dogs of all types and their handlers - I want to take a moment to speak to this.  (BTW:  I don't find any of the commentary on this thread the least bit offensive.  It is what it is and we all need our tools to get around in the world.)
>>> 
>>> I'm going to really simplify this, but when it comes to public transit and accommodating peoples' different disabilities, whoever has the more serious disability "wins".  (Not a great way to put it, but this comes up a lot with air travel...someone is griping that they're allergic.  So, the question becomes, "How serious is their allergy?"  My disabilities aren't usually imminently life-threatening, but they're fairly serious.)  Obviously this gal's dog allergy was not life threatening as she neither requested to get off the bus (to protect her health) - nor have you made any mention of hearing her take an inhaler or anything to head off the potential allergic reaction.  If it is the case that the allergy rises to the level of the dog handler's disability or is even more serious (like, life threatening...which is rare, but possible), then the transportation provider must reasonably accommodate both parties - usually by rerouting or calling
>>> paratransit for one party or the other and generally the person with the more "serious" disability is who is probably going to get priority.
>>> 
>>> I always hope that people can interact reasonably via a third party if such a thing does come up, but disability often gets peoples' hackles up REALLY fast.  I've only once run into this.  It was a flight and I knew something was up when I turned up at the gate and this lady made a beeline away from me and towards an agent. (This is usually a good indicator about someone's ACTUAL level of allergy.  If they're THAT allergic, they're not going to stand and argue with you with the dog right there, they're going to move away, right?  Duh!)  The agent came over to me, explained the situation and then through the agent the lady and I traded info regarding what each of us was travelling for and what our time tables looked like.  I don't even remember which one of us got re-routed, but it wasn't a giant deal. We were both disabled and made a fair compromise.  If only it were always so easy, right?
>>> 
>>> The individual you've described, Jenny, sounds more like someone who is used to "invoking" disability to get her way (which I've never understood) and she may have had numerous other things going on ranging from being fearful of dogs (when sometimes folks say they're allergic instead of admitting they are afraid) to having some sort of pain flare up with was making her particularly grumpy to she just woke up on the wrong side of the bed that day.  Ya just never know.  I do try to give people the benefit of the doubt when I can, but I did want to speak to how I've seen "dueling disabilities" handled.
>>> 
>>> Dailyah Rudek
>>> The ProBoneO Program, Director
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