[nagdu] Ownership of guide dog

Wed Mar 21 17:13:58 UTC 2012

They have what sounds like a case that would stand up and a lawyer they aren't needing to pay out of pocket, yet they are taking no action to put these contracts to a legal test.

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 1:08 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog

Please define what exactly you mean by willing.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog

>        So what you're saying is that the people who have had dogs
> repossessed have not been willing to go to court?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Marion Gwizdala
> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 8:07 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>
> Rebecca,
>    Yes, those who have had their dogs repossessed without cause or due
> process certainly have the right to litigate this. The challenge is
> convincing them to do so and finding legal counsel willing to take it on a
> contingency basis. We do have the counsel, we just need to find the
> litigant. Civil action is very time consuming and most would rather just
> cut
> their losses rather than engage in the process.
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 2:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>
>
>> So if Fidelco's contract wouldn't hold up in court, can't the people who
>> had their dogs taken away go to court?
>>
>> Is this happening anyplace? If not, why not?
>> Also, if it is illegal to have a contract written as Fidelco has written
>> theirs, how are the schools that don't grant legal ownership able to do
>> this froma legal perspective?  Is it that nobody has challenged them in
>> court?
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Marion Gwizdala
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 7:43 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>>
>> Ava,
>>    Since the contract one signs with the training programs is a legally
>> binding agreement, should an allegation of abuse, neglect, or
>> maltreatment
>> be made, the terms of the agreement and their legality would be reviewed.
>> In
>> the case of Fidelco, for instance, a legal expert in the area of consumer
>> and ownership rights has told me the terms of Fidelco's agreement would
>> likely be deemed unenforceable. It basically states, "You own your dog
>> unless we decide you don't!" Such contradictory language is logically
>> flawed.
>>    As for the terms of other agreements I have seen, the programs
>> generally
>> use the terms "evidence of abuse, neglect, or maltreatment" when
>> referring
>> to their right to repossess a dog. In such cases, I would assume the
>> legal
>> procedures and definitions of "evidence" would be used.
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion Gwizdala
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ava Foster" <avapup.7 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 9:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>>
>>
>>> Thank you all for your answers to my question about which programs
>>> grant total ownership. It's not that I'd mind having a contract
>>> stating a program could take a dog for abuse or such, but what worries
>>> me is, who determines what constitutes that abuse, such as in the
>>> example which I believe involved Fidelco. As an owner-trainer who
>>> would NEVER abuse a dog, I'd hate to think that asking for help could
>>> result in having a beloved family memer taken away. Thanks again! Ava
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rebecca.pickrell%40tasc.com
>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any attachments or files
>> transmitted with it (collectively, the "Message") are intended only for
>> the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary
>> and/or prohibited from disclosure by law or contract. If you are not the
>> intended recipient: (a) please do not read, copy or retransmit the
>> Message; (b) permanently delete and/or destroy all electronic and hard
>> copies of the Message; (c) notify us by return email; and (d) you are
>> hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of the
>> Message is strictly prohibited.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rebecca.pickrell%40tasc.com
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any attachments or files
> transmitted with it (collectively, the "Message") are intended only for
> the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary
> and/or prohibited from disclosure by law or contract. If you are not the
> intended recipient: (a) please do not read, copy or retransmit the
> Message; (b) permanently delete and/or destroy all electronic and hard
> copies of the Message; (c) notify us by return email; and (d) you are
> hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of the
> Message is strictly prohibited.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com

_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rebecca.pickrell%40tasc.com
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any attachments or files transmitted with it (collectively, the "Message") are intended only for the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary and/or prohibited from disclosure by law or contract. If you are not the intended recipient: (a) please do not read, copy or retransmit the Message; (b) permanently delete and/or destroy all electronic and hard copies of the Message; (c) notify us by return email; and (d) you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of the Message is strictly prohibited.