[nagdu] stepping off curbs was GDF training

[Julie J.]

Hello all!

I, too, use my right foot to step with first.  It feels more natural and 
stable to me.  I'm wondering though, is there some advantage or reason 
that some programs teach the left foot first and some the right?  I mean 
I chose the right foot first approach due to personal preference, but 
I'm wondering if there is some more scientific reasons for the foot used 
to lead with.  Does it keep you lined up better?  Does it provide a 
clearer cue to the dog?

If it makes any difference, I also use my right foot to start out on 
flat surfaces. I've always done this, even before my foot injury.   Now 
there's no way I could use the left to lead with because I can't keep 
myself steady on the right very well, especially going down stairs.

And out of curiosity, when a dog is trained to guide on the right is the 
footwork then the mirror image of whatever the standard is at that given 
program?

I tried the left foot approach for a while and it didn't feel right.  I 
suppose the same is true for people who learn it that way first and then 
try to change.

It's interesting to me though.
Julie










On 3/21/2012 6:53 PM, Natalie wrote:
> Hi Jenine,
> GDF is not much different from GDA in the find command as well as the 
> stepping off with the right foot from a curb, using the left foot as a 
> steadying folcrum.  Liam and I were trained with that method, and I 
> love it. Sometimes I revert back to the left-step method, but like the 
> right one better.
> Best,
> Nat and Liam Joshua
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:48 AM
> Subject: [nagdu] GDF training
>
>
>> Thank you all for your interest in how GDF's training is slightly 
>> different
>> from that at other schools. As always the disclaimer applies that 
>> everyone's
>> mileage may vary on this but these have been my experiences as a 
>> graduate
>> since 1990 and staff member since 2008.
>>
>> Back in 1990 when I first went to GDF, I knew a bit about having a guide
>> dog. I'd had 2 already from another school. I also knew that dogs 
>> could do
>> more than what that school told me they could but I had no idea how 
>> to get a
>> dog to the point of being able to do all those extra things.
>>
>> Needless to say, I was amazed when taught at GDF that I was indeed a dog
>> handler and had the knowledge and power to teach my dog additional 
>> things.
>> This was back before clickers and food rewards.
>>
>> Nothing wrong at all with using those training techniques but I was 
>> taught,
>> and GDf still does teach people, how to teach my dog to find things 
>> for me
>> without using a clicker or food. It was my job to retain the training
>> techniques.
>>
>> My first instructor told me that my dog would do as much or as little 
>> as I
>> expected of her as long as she understood those expectations.
>>
>> At that time during our training, we learned how to show the dogs the
>> difference between a flight of stairs going up or down. I could then 
>> say to
>> my GDF dog, "Find steps up." In a staircase and he or she would 
>> choose the
>> correct flight of stairs. Same with escalators.
>>
>> This has been dropped from most classes now as people just weren't 
>> using it,
>> but it's something I work with each of my dogs during class to master.
>>
>> The greatest difference I saw back in the '90's with my GDF dogs that
>> continues to this day is the use of the "find command". More schools are
>> indeed using this command in many ways but it's been at GDF for much 
>> longer
>> than I've been associated with them.
>>
>> During class at the Smithtown facility, you are expected to have your 
>> dog
>> find your seat in the dining room each day, an empty seat in the lecture
>> rooms, your own room, doors, the training vans, the trash cans at the 
>> relief
>> area and anything else you want him or her to find for you. I teach 
>> my dogs
>> to find the Coke machine right away. <grin>
>>
>> All of this is done without clickers or food or other external 
>> devices. The
>> dogs work for praise.
>>
>> Yes, we do use clickers in some phases of training but not during formal
>> class and wean the dogs off them quickly. We do use food and suggest 
>> its use
>> in problem solving but we don't expect you to carry around a treat 
>> pouch to
>> get your dog to work.
>>
>> Some of the things people from other schools find challenging about 
>> class,
>> and I'm speaking here of class in our facility, include the footwork. We
>> have you step off with your right foot, using your left leg as a 
>> fulcrum to
>> steady yourself.
>>
>> I had to work to overcome my original training of investigating the curb
>> with my right foot then stepping off with the left. This often found me
>> losing my balance and stumbling off the curb onto my dog. I've never 
>> done
>> that starting with the right foot.
>>
>> Some people will note that their dogs don't care which foot they 
>> start off
>> on and the dog adjusts. Some dogs do. Others struggle with it. I'm told
>> often by grads and observers that our dogs watch the handler's feet for
>> position and any uncertainty and correct their guiding accordingly.
>>
>> We also do some of the turns a bit differently. I'm struggling here to
>> recall what was done in my last class regarding left turns as I do 
>> them the
>> original way I was taught at GDF. This involves coming to a corner and
>> before giving the "left" command, turning my body 90 degrees to face 
>> left,
>> trying not to twist the handle of course. My knees are against my dog's
>> side. Then I give the "left" turn command and my dog has space to 
>> back up
>> around any obstacles like shrubbery or poles at the corner.
>>
>> The right turn command also is a tad different from what I was used to
>> before. It involves taking a step back with the right foot then 
>> putting your
>> weight on that foot and moving the left one back as well to give the dog
>> space to make the turn.
>>
>> In my early days at GDF we used a lot of hand signals. Those were 
>> dropped by
>> Mike Sergeant but are being reinstituted. Some people choose to use 
>> them and
>> some do not. I can't live without them. The thought is that using hand
>> signals does alert your dog to focus more on your body movements for
>> direction.
>>
>> The final thing that is different about GDF that is probably the 
>> toughest
>> thing to learn is leash guiding. Yes we teach it and yes we teach it 
>> in a
>> very specific way to stay safe.
>>
>> Do many dogs guide on leash? Sure they do but can they do so in 
>> Manhattan?
>> Our dogs have.
>>
>> That said, we have drastically revised our leash guiding instructions 
>> due to
>> the increasing traffic threat out there. Distracted drivers don't 
>> give dogs
>> enough time to react when leash guiding so we no longer recommend using
>> leash guiding for street work. It can be used indoors, in familiar areas
>> outside without traffic but isn't recommended for street crossing any
>> longer.
>>
>> The distance between the dog's head and shoulders and your body is
>> significantly shorter when leash guiding, giving less reaction time. 
>> Your
>> hand should be in a specific position on the leash with a specific 
>> length of
>> leash between you and the dog. It's not as easy as it sounds.
>>
>> I can imagine some of you saying "that's not really very different 
>> from my
>> school."
>>
>> It may not be now as many schools have picked up on some of our methods.
>> Some instructors still get into friendly but heated discussions with me
>> about why the "Find" command is impossible and often misused. My 
>> response is
>> to ask if those misusing the command are from schools who teach it 
>> during
>> class thoroughly such as Southeastern and GDF. The answer, a sheepish 
>> no.
>>
>> When teaching your dog to find something, you're also paying 
>> attention to
>> the dog's signals when it's not there. You also are a partner in 
>> helping to
>> find it, not just giving a command and hanging on.
>>
>> I'll end this message with a situation that always gets me. I've even 
>> caught
>> our grads doing it. Them I can chide, in a friendly way of course.
>>
>> We're in a room, say at a convention, and someone comes up and asks 
>> how to
>> get out of the room.
>>
>> My thought, "Tell your dog to 'find outside'. Or whatever the command 
>> is you
>> use to find a doorway. Your dog can do these things. It's up to you to
>> practice and keep him sharp. It's also up to you to use your 
>> knowledge of
>> orientation to give him clues. That's what GDF taught me. Hope this 
>> helps.
>>
>> Jenine Stanley
>> jeninems at wowway.com
>> http://www.twitter.com/jeninems
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/nrorrell%40qwest.net 
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40neb.rr.com
>