[nagdu] where I don't take the dog was Lots of Questions

Larry D. Keeler lkeeler at comcast.net
Mon Sep 3 15:11:37 UTC 2012 

I have Holly standing and kneeling at church.  Its kind of funny because I 
sit where a extra space is available.  I stand, so does she!  I kneel and 
she sits.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 6:37 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] where I don't take the dog was Lots of Questions


> Oh, I agree, but we sure respect the Muslims for their religion not 
> allowing for it, though some of the blind Musllims are working to change 
> it, and I do think change in that should be made.
>
> Cindy Lou
>
> On Sep 2, 2012, at 10:22 PM, Michael Hingson wrote:
>
>> On the other hand, I believe a church which does not welcome a blind 
>> person
>> with a guide dog is not being welcoming and is discriminating.  Martin
>> Luther King JR. once said something like the most prejudicial hour of the
>> week is Sunday at 11AM.  Legal or not a church should above all entities
>> should welcome all including blind persons with guide dogs.
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>> Michael Hingson
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Cindy Ray
>> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 07:53 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] where I don't take the dog was Lots of Questions
>>
>> Actually, the church is not required to allow you to bring your dog into
>> their temple, so you may well be doing a good thing not to fight it.
>>
>> Cindy Lou
>>
>> On Sep 2, 2012, at 9:49 PM, Jenny Keller wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Again, sorry to get to this thread so late.  but I wanted to say that as 
>>> a
>> member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, which has been 
>> in
>> the news a lot for our temples and such.  I am not allowed to bring him
>> inside the temple.
>>>
>>> I know, I could probably fight it.  but there are a lot of Mormons who 
>>> are
>> blind and have had, or do have guides, and we all, or most of us, have
>> decided that the Holiness of the temple trumps our legal right to bring 
>> our
>> dogs inside it.
>>> anyway, Have a great week, and my prayers and thoughts go out to anyone 
>>> on
>> this list directly, or having family affected, by Hurricane Isac.
>>>
>>> Remember, there could've been guides and their handlers involved, and 
>>> they
>> need our thoughts and prayers.  Not only everyone else too.
>>>
>>> Jenny
>>> On Aug 31, 2012, at 4:05 PM, Lyn Gwizdak wrote:
>>>
>>>> Julie and Cindy,
>>>> These things show exactly why the schools tell us not to throw away our
>> canes or us to never use a cane again.  We have two mobility aids and we
>> have the capability to use each one as needed and it's all good!
>>>>
>>>> I don't take Landon if it is way too hot for him and I've left him for
>> some other things as well.  Recently, I left him home when I went to
>> somebody's tiny bungalow home to make buttons and signs for Pride.  There
>> were two small dogs and a TON of people crammed into that house and tiny
>> patio out back.  I was glad not to have had Landon with me.  He literally
>> would have had NO place to lie down where he wouldn't get stepped on!
>> Literally! LOL! I was glad to be able to work on our projects without
>> worrying about him getting stepped on or fed junk by people who didn't 
>> know
>> the rules.  Landon stayed home and snoozed and kept my sister company.  I
>> didn't bring him to our CityFest event where I staffed my Democratic 
>> club's
>> table.  It was SOOOOOO hot that day!  I did see some dogs there but not 
>> as
>> many as usual for that event - and even some of those dogs wore booties!
>> Landon's comfort was much more important than his entertaining folks who
>> came to our booth. He does this out of harness.  He deals well with 
>> visiting
>> and then working because he is a certified therapy dog as well so he 
>> enjoys
>> this alot.  I also leave him home alot when I grocery shop and need to 
>> take
>> a cart on the bus.  Much easier with a cane.
>>>>
>>>> Each person and dog need to do as they deem the right thing to do in 
>>>> any
>> circumstance and people shouldn't criticise each other for our choices.
>>>>
>>>> Landon goes to funerals and he comforts people there - family members 
>>>> or
>> my friends - at the appropriate time.  I had him at my Dad's funeral last
>> week at their church and later at my parents' house where we gathered
>> afterwards. We will have another memorial in late October when the rest 
>> of
>> our huge family can get there.  Landon will be there as well.
>>>>
>>>> If I ride in private cars or visit private homes where I don't really
>> know the people, I will ask first before bringing Landon - just courtesy.
>> And most of the time, they say a resounding YES because most of the 
>> people I
>> know love dogs and animals.
>>>>
>>>> Everyone have a nice Labor Day.  Hope those of you in the path of TS
>> Isaac are safe and OK.  these storms can be so devastating!
>>>>
>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 1:07 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] where I don't take the dog was Lots of Questions
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> There are few places I don't take the dog. Sometimes when with my
>> daughter, I don't take him for a ride with us if we go for a drive. I 
>> will
>> not take him to fireworks displays, and I stopped taking him when I went 
>> to
>> the gym. However, before I ever got a dog, my husband at the time, Chuck
>> Hallenbeck, said to me, "Think of all the places you wouldn't think you
>> would use the dog and then use it anyway", or words to that effect. And 
>> that
>> is what I've always done. It is interesting the differences in people's
>> philosophy of where to use/take the dog. When I went to the Benedictine
>> Retreat Center I went to in spring, if they had said I couldn't bring 
>> him, I
>> would have been more amenable to that since I now understand that this is
>> within their right.
>>>>>
>>>>> CL
>>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 31, 2012, at 1:04 PM, Julie J. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I am going to the state fair this weekend.  the temps are supposed to
>> be in the 90's.  We are going to a tractor pull and then a concert. 
>> Monty
>> has been to the state fair before, but he's staying home this year. It'll 
>> be
>> too hot, too loud and too uncomfortable for him to lay on bleachers for
>> hours and hours.  I'm not exactly sure how I'm going to remain semi
>> comfortable on those bleachers all afternoon and evening.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do not take my guides to funerals.  This has nothing to do with the
>> place of the event, the other people or the dog.  It is because I only
>> attend funerals of people who I was very close to and I'm in no frame of
>> mind to be working a guide dog.  I typically go sighted guide with a cane
>> just in case.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have not taken any of my guides on a vacation.  I consider this on 
>>>>>> a
>> case by case basis.  I recently traveled to Alaska.  Monty stayed home
>> because we scheduled a lot of day trips that would have not been 
>> appropriate
>> for him and I couldn't figure out what I'd do with him.  We went clam
>> digging which is extremely and I mean extremely wet, cold and dirty work.
>> We went kayaking.  there was no place in the boat for him. We also went
>> fishing on a small boat.  It ended up that he could have probably fit and
>> been comfortable on that boat, but I didn't know that before I arrived.
>> Ditto with the bed and breakfast, it turned out that the owner would have
>> been fine with Monty there, but she was not required to accept service 
>> dogs
>> because she lives on the premises and only rents a very small number of
>> rooms.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I rarely take my guide into friends homes or cars.  The exception is 
>>>>>> if
>> he is specifically invited or if I am attending some work related 
>> function
>> with a coworker.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Other places I don't take Monty: car races, fireworks displays and
>> llama farms.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I generally run through the following before taking Monty:
>>>>>> 1. Is he legally allowed in this place?  If no is he invited or will 
>>>>>> he
>> be accepted without impoliteness?
>>>>>> 2.  Will his coming along make my life easier, more convenient or
>> improve my options?
>>>>>> 3.  Will he be comfortable in this place?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course I don't actually go through those questions verbatim each
>> time, but a lot more so in the beginning when I was still getting the 
>> hang
>> of things.  And sometimes my choice to take him isn't based on the place 
>> at
>> all.  I just left him home yesterday when my husband and I ran to the 
>> bank.
>> Monty had already been on a long walk in the morning and then a regular 
>> day
>> at my office.  It was very hot and he was tired.  I felt like he needed a
>> break.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've noticed that my list of places and circumstances has changed 
>>>>>> over
>> the years and with the different personalities of my dogs.  What works 
>> for
>> Monty may be entirely different from my next dog or if Monty was someone
>> else guide what works for that team combination would likely also be
>> different.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> JMHO
>>>>>> Julie
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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