[nagdu] where to buy guide dog harnesses

Mon Apr 22 14:07:59 UTC 2013

Ken,
    The challenge is with what you rfer to as "credentials". Who would 
provide these credentials? As you have already discovered, the Lighthouse 
would like you to believe that they have the authority to issue white canes 
and provide you the credentials necessary to "prove" you are blind and have 
specific skills needed to get the gear you need to be independent. Other 
organizations have also attempted to corner the market on skills training to 
the exclusion of the blind, such as the Association for Education & 
Rehabilitation of the Blind ()AER). In response, the NFB set up our own 
credentialing process to train blind O&M instructors.
    Some guide dog training programs have also attempted to corner the 
market by getting specific colored harnesses and specific documentation 
needed for access written into sate law. The federal law, though is very 
clear: No specific gear nor any documentation is necessary as a precondition 
to access. Training programs also use their gear to exercise control over 
their consumers by retaining ownership of the gear and asserting they can 
repossess it at any time. Well, if a training program wishes to repossess 
our gear, we can buy our own! I, for one, refuse to be treated as a child by 
any training program, which is why I opt for one that transfers ownership 
upon completion of training.
    The short story is that no training program, whether guide dog or cane, 
should treat us paternalistically or custodially. If they do, they are 
accountable to us and we, as advocates, have the right to make them 
accountable!

Fraternally yours,
Marion Gwizdala, President
National Association of Guide Dog Users (NAGDU)
National Federation of the Blind
813-626-2789
President at NAGDU.ORG
HTTP://WWW.NAGDU.ORG


From: "Ken Ace" <ken at acenovels.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] where to buy guide dog harnesses


> Star,
> I obviously have lived in a less hostile environment than others I have
> encountered in this list. My thought is perhaps a little unrealistic but I
> was just looking for a purity in our mutual condition to the exclusion of
> those who don't warrant access and perhaps that's a little prejudicial on 
> my
> part. But it would be nice if things worked that way from my view. We 
> could
> still use our credentials to get canes or harnesses.
> Ken & Ace
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Star Gazer
> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 6:53 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] where to buy guide dog harnesses
>
> Yes ken, I would like to know why your model appeals to you? I think it's
> miserable. So, I would like to know your thinking?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 21, 2013, at 6:23 PM, Buddy Brannan <buddy at brannan.name> wrote:
>
>> Sorry Ken, I for one can't get behind your fantasy world. For one, where
> would owner trainers get a harness? For another, would it be better, do 
> you
> suppose, for someone to not be able to travel independently during the 
> time
> that they go through all the red tape to prove blindness, get 
> authorization,
> lose the paperwork, misfile the records, sign in triplicate, misfile the
> form, refill the form, etc. etc., before one can get a cane? Or do you
> reckon we should all be put on some blind registry? (I can't tell you how
> awful that idea sounds.) Nah, I think I like it the way it is, with all 
> its
> pitfalls.
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 21, 2013, at 6:01 PM, "Ken Ace" <ken at acenovels.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Julie,
>>> That sucks. I liked my fantasy view of things much better where you
>>> only got your harness from the school you graduated from and you only
>>> got a white cane if you were legally blind and went through an 
>>> accredited
> course.
>>> Doesn't that sound like something we all should be pushing for? Or am
>>> I living in a fantasy world of my own?
>>> Ken & Ace
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 5:37 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] where to buy guide dog harnesses
>>>
>>> You can buy both white canes and guide harnesses without any
>>> training, certification or endorsement of any kind. It is perfectly
>>> legal to possess white canes and guide harnesses, even if you aren't
>>> blind.  It is fraud to put a guide harness on a pet of a non disabled
>>> person and claim that dog is a guide dog so you can go into stores and
> the like.
>>>
>>> HTH
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Ken Ace
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 9:04 AM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] where to buy guide dog harnesses
>>>
>>> I am obviously misinformed because I am sure we were told by my
>>> school that "Harnesses are always the property of the school and
>>> where you get replacements". They likened it to white canes, you just
>>> can't go out and buy a white cane if you haven't gone through the
>>> training. Does anyone have any input?
>>> Ken & Ace
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Christel
>>> Sogenbits
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 9:55 AM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] where to buy guide dog harnesses
>>>
>>> Hello!
>>>
>>> It is very interesting question for me allso beacuse we have only one
>>> kind of harnesses  here. Allso I would be really happy and thankful
>>> if somebody wants to write me offlist  and describe their harnesses or
> send pictures.
>>> I can  do picture  of my guides harnesses and write there what part
>>> of it is made of metal and what part is made from leather if somebody is
> interested.
>>> Allso I can send you pictures do show how  they are on my dog.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tervitades / With greetings
>>> Christel Sogenbits
>>> GSM: +372 58 440 521
>>> E-mail: christel.chrissu at gmail.com
>>> Skype: christel.chrissu
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon L.
>>> Dillon
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 11:21 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: [nagdu] where to buy guide dog harnesses
>>>
>>> Hi, does anyone know where to get guide dog harnesses (other than the
>>> ones we can get from our schools)? I got my previous harness from Paw
>>> Power Creations but their web site doesn't seem to be functioning
>>> anymore.  I'm looking for another lightweight, flexible, nonleather
>>> harness  to use on the beach this summer, and I would have gotten it
>>> from Paw Power Creations if they were up and running. I love my old
>>> one but I had it made without stabilizer loops and I wanted to have one
> made with the stabilizer loops.
>>> Does anyone know of alternatives?
>>> Thanks.
>>> -Shannon and Yalie
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: graduate56 at juno.com
>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2013 12:57:23 -0600
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] my surgery
>>>>
>>>> thats a really good description of the exhibit hall.
>>>> I remember when I took my girl to convention for the first time. We
>>>> got through the crowd in the exhibit hall and to tables. She found
>>>> the Gdf table right away. she was so happy with herself for it. She
>>>> knows her school.
>>>> Lol!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blessings,
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Melissa and Pj
>>>> Find me on:
>>>> Twitter melissa5674
>>>> facebook Melissa R Green
>>>> Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 12:43 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] my surgery
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Mary,
>>>>
>>>> So glad the surgery went well. Please give us a call at GDF and Barb
>>>> can talk to you about recovery and getting back to work with Felix.
>>>>
>>>> As for the national convention, what's really nice about the exhibit
>>>> hall is that there is a great description printed ahead of time and
>>>> possibly even a tactile map you can look at prior to going in so you
>>>> know where you are going.
>>>>
>>>> I use the "Find the counter" command a lot to have Swap take me to
>>>> the edges of tables when he can. Sometimes, and not to be crude
>>>> here, you just encounter a wall of butts. That's why when reaching
>>>> out to see what's in front of me, I use the back of my hand
>>>> initially to see how close we are to people. <grin>
>>>>
>>>> Enjoy.
>>>>
>>>> Jenine Stanley
>>>> jeninems at wowway.com
>>>> http://www.twitter.com/jeninems
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mary
>>>> Wurtzel
>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 1:18 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] my surgery
>>>>
>>>> Hello all,
>>>>
>>>> I wanted to share about my recent surgery and how it went fore Felix
>>>> and
>>> me.
>>>> First, for some reason, the hospital said I could bring my dog but
>>>> had to find my own way to take him out. I didn't have family who
>>>> could be there whenever Felix needed to go out. I decided to board
>>>> him at the vet for the three days I was in the hospital. That went 
>>>> fine.
>>>> The rehabilitation facility allowed me to bring my dog. They were
>>>> willing to have staff to take him out. I could not walk for two
>>>> weeks after surgery.
>>>> I am very grateful to all of the nursing care aids who took Felix
>>>> out for me.
>>>> Felix was on a tie-down on one side of my bed. I was fortunate to
>>>> have a private room.
>>>> Friends of mine who also have guide dogs came and groomed and
>>>> exercised Felix for me.
>>>> I took him on leash with me to the dining room in a wheelchair.
>>>> Because I did not use the harness, I let people pet him. The other
>>>> clients and the staff really enjoyed having a dog to pet. Some of
>>>> the people were seniors who had ffallen or had replacement type
> surgeries.
>>>> They love to remember dogs that they had during their lives.
>>>> It was kind of neat because Felix seemed to know I was in pain. He
>>>> would come right up to the side of the bed and stand close so I
>>>> could pet
>>> him.
>>>> After two and a half weeks I could come home. I have a boot on my
>>>> foot and still cannot work Felix. I worry about this. I now have
>>>> about a week and a half before I can walk again.
>>>> I have let Felix out in the fenced in yard to play with our pet dog.
>>>> My husband took Felix for a walk, but he dragged back and wouldn't go.
>>>> All I can think is that maybe he didn't want to leave me.
>>>> This surgery is hopefully going to make it possible for me to have
>>>> better balance when I walk. I am excited to see how successful it
>>>> will be. I am just praying that my pup will still remember how to be
>>>> a guide
>>> dog.
>>>> I am so blessed to have such wonderful friends and a great family.
>>>> This will be my first national convention to have a guide dog. I
>>>> think the thing I dread the most is going to the exhibit hall with a 
>>>> dog
> guide.
>>>> I AM SO ENJOYING THIS LIST AND HOPE TO MEET SOME OF OUR FOLKS IN
> Orlando.
>>>> Mary
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy
>>>> Carcione
>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 10:29 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] coming on command - was no follow up
>>>>
>>>> My first dog Glade thought running away and not coming were a great
>>>> game. A
>>>>
>>>> couple times, she accidently got loose, and I had a heck of a time
>>>> catching her again. She would always come when she saw her harness,
>>>> though, so I'd try to get close enough to her to show it to her, and
>>>> the game would be over.
>>>>
>>>> I quote the Irish Rovers, sort of:
>>>> Those labradors were hiding, playing silly games.
>>>>
>>>> From the Unicorn song, explaining why there aren't any more around.
>>>> Tracy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Daniel" <daniel.sweeney1 at comcast.net>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 3:07 PM
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] coming on command - was no follow up
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Eve and everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I was having the same problems with having Cass coming to me when I
>>>>> called, and to some extent still do. Although I never allow her to
>>>>> be off leash in the common area behind my townhome, I will go out
>>>>> on a 25 foot leash and practice recall with food treats. This is
>>>>> what my field rep advised me when she visited me on my second month
>>>>> home after complaining about this problem.
>>>>> I explained to her that I was having problems with recall both in
>>>>> and out of the house. After returning home and keeping Cass on
>>>>> leash for about 5 weeks, I let her off and when I called her she
>>>>> would not come to me. We would do obedience training, sit, down,
>>>>> stay, and come at short distances and she would do just fine, but
>>>>> when we were at ease she would not come to me when
>>>>
>>>>> I
>>>>> called. Talk about frustrating - to be upstairs and call and have
>>>>> no dog come, or to be ten feet away and call her to come to me and
>>>>> she would just ignore me. Things really came to a head when I went
>>>>> to a friend's house and she was playing in the yard with his dogs.
>>>>> He called his dogs to come in and Cass refused to come inside. He
>>>>> went to the back door and she would run from my friend. I went to
>>>>> the door and she would ignore my command to come inside. I finally
>>>>> was able to get her to come inside by filling her food bowl, and
>>>>> then snagging her with the leash. That was the last time she was
>>>>> off leash until the field rep came. We started working with high
>>>>> value food rewards. This has seemed to work for the most part, but
>>>>> there are still some occasional instances where she will stay just
>>>>> out of my reach when I call her, and not come to me as if I am
>>>>> playing a game. Needless to say this really ticks me off since I
>>>>> have never had a dog that has done this. I have had quite a few
>>>>> dogs. She has a HUGE stubborn streak. I would never let her be off
>>>>> leash outside unless the area was securely enclosed, and then only
>>>>> with hesitation. I am just glad she is food motivated. The fact
>>>>> that we have only been together for a bit over 4 months lets me
>>>>> think that in time she will become a little more attached and this
>>>>> problem will solve itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> I apologize for the long winded emails, but when I get going, I
>>>>> really get going.
>>>>>
>>>>> Daniel and Cass
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
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