[nagdu] Fidelco Responds to Guide Dog Users' Bill of Rights

Margo Downey and Arrow margo.downey at verizon.net
Wed Aug 14 21:45:50 UTC 2013


Minh, I'll comment on one aspect for now.  My dogs come from The Seeing Eye.  The Seeing Eye and I believe one or two other schools expect that we are adults and will call if we need help.  We are informed when an instructor is in the area and asked if there is anything we need.  An instructor will also be sent if the handler and Seeing Eye agree this is necessary because phone call solutions haven't worked or there are serious safety or other issues.  We do not have mandatory follow-ups.  

Margo and Arrow



-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of minh ha
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 4:37 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fidelco Responds to Guide Dog Users' Bill of Rights

Michael and Tina,

My boyfriend (who is also a guide dog user) and I compiled the following concerns/comments. I think a lot of the issues we have are more legal stuff that we feel that the Bill of Rights didn't really take into consideration. However, I don't know the rationalization behind these proposals, so some clarification and discussion would be appreciated.

>A. The guide dog training program shall seek input from the consumer concerning the type of dog requested throughout the matching process.

* I really like this to an extent; I believe that it is necessary and  important to gain consumer input (and my school, GDB does this well).
What I have misgivings on is the fact that this could be interpreted by a consumer to say that they can receive any dog they want. . I believe that it is best to let the instructors choose your  dog for you, unless you really do have requirements that are not just  something you specifically want. I think here it is important to  distinguish between "I want"/"I need." I have heard a lot of stories about people ademently insisting on a specific type of dog and how disastrously wrong that match was. I believe that the trainers know best what kind of dog a user might need and as consumers of the organization, we should respect their expert opinions. Again, I'm not saying that consumer input is not valuable and should be discouraged, but that people shouldn't have a free reign when deciding what dog they are going to get.

>A. The consumers freedom of independent travel with a white cane shall 
>not be restricted by the training program, unless doing so would
 interfere with the training process or adversely impact other consumers.

* I was honestly confused by the word "restrictions." Are there training programs out there that do not allow their clients to use a white cane at all? If it so, then I definitely do not agree with that as there have been instances in which I have had to take out my cane and heel my dog in order to find certain landmarks. However, there could be people guide dog users that tend to refer back to their canes more than working with their guides, which would defeat the whole purpose of getting a guide in the first place.

 >B. Consumers shall be free to independently monitor and >manage their  personal health, including, but not limited >to blood pressure monitoring, blood glucose testing, insulin injections, pain management regimens, and all other health maintenance routines. Assistance may be offered; however, the  consumer has the right to refuse such assistance.
 This is one of those legal issues that I was concerned with. It is important I guess as long as the refusal is done with the  knowledge that improper use of the medications does not negatively  impact the organization they are training at.

>D. Consumers shall be afforded opportunities to independently travel off-campus accompanied by their guide dogs prior to completion of training At the discression of the training program.
 I pretty much say no here; GDB does not allow you to go galavanting off  campus because it could be dangerous for both you and the dog if you are  an untrained guidedog user. I still feel that even as a retrain, it  could still be dangerous if you don't know the dog very well.
 Alternatively, I believe there are also legal implications if something  should happen to a dog; from what I was told, after graduation a sort of  partial ownership is transfered to you. I equate this situation with getting a driver's license; you wouldn't want somebody that did not complete their driver's course to roam the streets. It takes time for a dog and handler to understand one another's patterns and habits and allowing someone to just take off with a guide just doesn't make sense.

>B. A consumer’s refusal to allow other training programs >to share
 information during the application process >shall not be used as the  sole grounds for  >denial of services.
 I am kind of confused here; I don't believe your information should be  randomly shared, but I do believe that organizations such as gdb have  the right (and the responsibility really) to request information from  other organizations. My concern is this scenario; a client could have  had a dog from 3 other schools that was taken away for specific reasons.
 Perhaps one bad experience with one school should not be an indicator of  the client, but multiple experiences should have to be explained and  should be known to the school at which you are applying. I believe that  if an organization is going to invest in a dog and training of a client,  they should be aware of the client's record before making that investment.

>B. Follow up services shall be optional. Invitations for >follow up
 services may be made when a representative will >be in the area, with  the understanding  >that the consumer may decline the offer without >consequences.
 To a point, I agree with this; I've heard a ton of stories about  representatives just randomly dropping in on clients. I believe that  this shouldn't be made optional though; if you personally agree upon  receiving training or a dog that you will be visited say, once a year  until it is decided that this isn't necessary, then you should be held  to this. By investing in a dog and a client, the organization should  have the right to check on their dogs and make sure everything is ok.

>A. i. Consumers shall have the right to know the >identities of those
 who file allegations
 >of abuse, maltreatment and/or neglect and shall be given >the  opportunity to answer such allegations before the >training program  commences any action. Anonymous  >complaints shall not be accepted.
 I know a few people here feel pretty strongly about this. I do believe  it is important to know what the complaint was and why, but I believe  the person should be able to remain anonymous. Again, I see a scenario  in which a dog is having a lot of issues, or perhaps the person is  mistreating their dog in a workplace, but where a person does not want  to make their name known because it may cause issues. The organization  should encourage dialog between the the complaintant and the handler, or  in the least facilitate some sort of dialog with the other person  remaining anonymous. Maybe a system can be implemented where anonymous complaints can be verified that they are coming from a credible source before being investigated.


On 8/14/13, Tina Thomas <judotina48kg at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello- I would be very interested in your concerns and misgivings on 
> the bill of rights.
> Tina
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of minh ha
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 12:09 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fidelco Responds to Guide Dog Users' Bill of 
> Rights
>
> Marion,
>
> Has the Bill of Rights already been voted on at this year's national 
> convention? I just read it on the blog and agree with many of the points.
> There were only a couple that I had misgivings on and I was wondering 
> if there was a place to comment on them.
>
> Minh
>
> On 8/14/13, National Association of Guide Dog Users 
> <blind411 at verizon.net>
> wrote:
>> Sheila,
>> 	If you go to the blog, you will be able to read exactly what Fidelco
>
>> said - or did not say - as well as my commentary on their response.
>>
>> Marion
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sheila 
>> Leigland
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 1:43 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fidelco Responds to Guide Dog Users' Bill of 
>> Rights
>>
>> from what I remember there wasn't much response from fidelco I was 
>> hoping for more openness from the representative.
>> On 8/14/2013 11:33 AM, National Association of Guide Dog Users wrote:
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>>                  During this year's annual meeting of the National 
>>> Association of Guide Dog Users (NAGDU), a strong and proud division 
>>> of the National Federation of the Blind, we invited guide dog 
>>> training programs to offer input on our Guide dog Users' Bil of 
>>> Rights. The first of these responses is from the Fidelco Guide Dog 
>>> Foundation, along with official comments from NAGDU. You can read 
>>> this response and our commentary on our Harness Up! Blog by going to
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://harnessup.wordpress.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The text of our Guide dog Users' Bill of Rights is also available on 
>>> our blog. Please feel free to leave comments!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>>>
>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc.
>>>
>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>
>>> (813) 626-2789 (Office)
>>>
>>> 888-NAGDU411 (Hotline
>>>
>>> President at nagdu.org
>>>
>>> www.nagdu.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>
>
> --
> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty 
> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on 
> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
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--
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence

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