[nagdu] Pictures and Videos was RE: What is "disruptive" to a business?

Mon Aug 19 00:18:39 UTC 2013

Nicole,
	I am not an attorney, so the information I share should not be
considered legal advice. I am of the opinion that, in a public place there
is no expectation of privacy, so taking video in a public place would not
violate any law. It might be something you would want to check with your
Attorney General's office about or, if you have a relationship with an
attorney, ask them for a little guidance.

Marion

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole Torcolini
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 11:54 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: [nagdu] Pictures and Videos was RE: What is "disruptive" to a
business?

What are the laws, for all parties, on taking videos or pictures? Can we do
it as handlers? Can businesses do it? 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tami Jarvis
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 8:39 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] What is "disruptive" to a business?

Jenine,

Oh, guilty here. Of the finger grooming, not the rest! With my poodle, I"m
not spreading fur, but I do need to be careful about what her hair picks up
so I don't end up making a pile of the great outdoors. When we walk a
distance -- or especially if we take transit -- I need to remember to give
her a thorough brush off and pat down before we walk in a door. Mostly, when
I'm petting her absent-mindedly, I fondle her top knot and ears, so those
are pretty safe from debris collection. /smile/

I'll start with my conclusions: I do think in this case the restaurant could
legally ask the dog to leave and not come back. I also think there is a
middle ground where the manager (or whoever) could attempt a friendly
approach to explain the problems to the handler and ask for better manners.
I'm not going to say "should," since the dog handling is not their
responsibility. It would be a darned awkward conversation, and it could go
horribly wrong in a legal way. Just as easy to ban the dog and be done with
it.

Now here's my take on the scenario and my reasons for believing the
disruption is significant:

Okay, I'm a decent, responsible restaurant owner now, and I want to follow
the law and do what is right. Only now I have to deal with the service dog
team you just described. Drat! What should I do? That's a toughie.

Assuming I am a reasonable intelligent restaurant owner, I probably ought to
get some video of the behavior I believe to be disruptive to my business in
case things turn into a big round of "he said, she said." 
Pictures of the water on the floor of the aisle would be a really good idea,
too! That's a safety concern that I *really* have to worry about. 
I have to follow regulations about that, I have health codes that may come
into play, and I sure do not want my workers' comp rates to go up, nor my
liability insurance because of a slip and fall. Boy howdy, I do not want
that!

My restaurant is not a dog park or a petting zoo. People come here to relax
and eat a good meal and enjoy themselves. Not all of them enjoy having a dog
there in the first place, and they don't want to have it in the middle of
everything, and they don't want to have to hear all the cooing over it as
the center piece of their dining experience. I want them to come back again
so I can stay in business. They probably don't want to come back again and
won't. The customer with the dog that is causing this disruption is not
making up for business I am probably losing.

This is disruptive and possibly expensive.

Tami

On 08/18/2013 07:41 AM, Jenine Stanley wrote:
> In this whole discussion of fake service dogs, I'm reminded that it is 
> truly all about behavior. Or is it?
>
> For me personally, it's insulting that someone thinks he or she must 
> fain disability, something I live with and have no choice about, to be 
> able to take even a well behaved pet into places where I can take my 
> dog, because he assists me. There is a strong part of me that wants to 
> say to people who do this, "Good, you get the rest of the things that 
> go along with having a disability, like un or under employment, often 
> being thought of as a child or not equal to others, general ignorance,
etc."
>
> Then I ask myself about our own community. Do we realize that our dogs 
> too are under these same conduct standards?  I don't want to blame the 
> victim at all here and I know that most of us try very hard to keep 
> our dogs under good control.
>
> Here's an interesting situation though, and it's totally fictitious. 
> What would you do if you were the business owner?
>
> A person comes into your business regularly with a legitimate service 
> dog, doesn't matter what the dog does for the person, that person has 
> the right gear and ID and has answered the questions you can ask 
> legally about the dog.
>
> The person always gives the dog water at the table, allowing it to 
> drink out in the aisle where people walk. The person makes no attempt 
> to clean up the water left after the dog drinks. This makes the floor 
> very slippery for everyone and the staff must clean it up.
>
> The person sits while talking and grooms the dog with his fingers, 
> flicking the fur onto the floor. This makes a huge mess as it's a
long-haired dog.
>
> The person allows and encourages everyone in the place to pet and play 
> with the dog, taking it out of harness for this activity. As a result, 
> other customers think it's OK to bring their pet dogs in and to pet 
> other service dogs who come in with their people.
>
> As the business owner, this is very disruptive and we want to ban the 
> person from bringing the dog in. Thoughts?
>
> Yes, our office actually got this call. I won't tell you what we said 
> as that's confidential, but I'm curious to see your thoughts.
>
> I'll admit, when nervous or bored, I will do that finger grooming 
> thing. I caught myself the other day and began feeling around for fur 
> and collecting it into my pocket. :)
>
> Jenine Stanley
> jeninems at wowway.com
> http://www.twitter.com/jeninems
>
>
>
>
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