[nagdu] Owner trainers

Mon Aug 19 22:17:21 UTC 2013

Minh, Sherrie, Julie, everyone else..

The steps Julie listed for the OT (owner-trainer) process match what I 
tend to think of based on what I've learned from others and my own 
experience.

I tend to list self-analysis as Step One. Some questions you might ask 
yourself would have to do with whether you can follow through on an 
intensive, all-consuming project for anywhere from 6 months to 2 years. 
This would include looking at a projection of how stable you can expect 
your life to be, how your resources are, etc. I know a few people who I 
think would probably do very well at owner-training who have decided at 
some point in this process that it is probably not for them for reasons 
that make perfect sense. They don't want to tackle the dangers of 
traffic training, for instance, so would rather have a professional do 
that. Or they simply don't have time or budget or energy or certainty 
that they could maintain any or all of the above for the duration of the 
training process. Others, obviously, decide to go ahead and start 
hunting for the right pup. Two things you will absolutely need, from 
what I have learned of other successful OTs: Superlative O&M skills, 
especially the orientation part; and the ability to remain calm and 
rational when it's about to hit the fan to ensure that it doesn't while 
also communicating with and teaching a young dog. This seems to come 
more easily to some people than to others, and only you can know if you 
have that ability or can build it.

Another part of the training is to prepare the pup for public access. 
You can do a ton of groundwork, but sooner or later you will have to 
take the dog into places of public accommodation which are generally 
pretty high-stimulus and where there is a certain amount of pressure to 
have your youngster be perfect. If you can do all the rest, you can find 
the balance to pull it off. But the added hurdle there is the gray areas 
in the law about public access and dogs in training. The early exposure 
is important, but can you call the pup task trained? And even if it is 
(Mitzi learned her first legit task in the first month), is it ready for 
public access (Mitzi was totally *not*!)? I used gradual exposure to 
similar situations and stimuli, then took to sitting near outdoor 
eateries, then sitting in them and actually enjoying a cup of coffee and 
stuff like that. My poodle pup was pretty excitable -- as a super mellow 
member of her breed, apparently, which scares me -- so I had to take it 
slow and really work teaching her to keep herself calm. There was a lot 
of levitating and wriggling. One reason I want to start a younger pup 
next time is to get some of that conditioning in while it is still timid 
and impressionable. Not sure my nerves will survive another mustang 
poodle. /shudder/ For indoor trainining, I did my own PR with various 
stores in my area and just explained what I was doing, the legalities 
were technically there by then but not the etiquette, did they mind if I 
brought her in when it wasn't too busy to work on that? I assured them 
that if she got out of hand, they could have me removed while promising 
to take her out myself if she wasn't ready to act like a grown up. They 
were great, and this worked as I gradually got her to the point I could 
actually buy a pack of gum without my dog defying the laws of physics 
out of excitement. The wiggling and all was embarrassing, even if 
everyone else thought it was adorable and hysterical. Sigh. I need Tums 
thinking about it! /lol/

Change of messages I am replying to: Finish the book, Julie! I'm going 
to need that! /grin/

Tami

On 08/19/2013 01:50 PM, Julie J. wrote:
> Yes, I  do traffic training with my dogs.  Traffic avoidance is one of
> those top level skills.  There is a lot of building blocks to get
> there.  First, the dog must understand stationary obstacles, on the left
> and right.  Next would be maybe pedestrian traffic of a normal variety,
> think people at a bank, post office, office building etc.  Next maybe
> larger crowds and more sporadic walking patterns, think shopping malls,
> Wal-Mart on Saturday morning, kids at a playground etc.  The next level
> might be small wheeled obstacles.  I have my Kiddo wheel our large trash
> bin around to do this part.  It's loud so I know what's going on every
> step of the process. Shopping carts, responsible bicyclist, roller
> skaters etc. would be other examples in this category.  then move up to
> kids on skateboards not paying too much attention, bicyclists talking on
> their phones, Moms with 7 kids who are talking on their phone while
> pushing the shopping cart at Wal-Mart on the Saturday morning...you get
> the idea.  Accidents up to this point are going to be unpleasant, but
> not fatal.
>
> Once the dog has a solid understanding of moving obstacles and I do mean
> solid, then find a friend or family member who likes you and get them to
> drive at you, but not to actually harm you.  I start in the driveway
> with the car pulling in as I'm walking down the sidewalk.  Move to more
> difficult situations, car turning right in front of you as you cross the
> street, car backing up, etc.  Your dog already knows obstacle avoidance,
> the traffic is just practice with bigger and faster obstacles.
>
> Monty is super traffic aware.  He paused just last night in the Wal-Mart
> parking lot because there was a car backing out.  There's an alley I
> have to cross on my way to work that has a building right next to it,
> completely blocking the driver's view of any approaching pedestrians.
> We get a traffic check there every few weeks.  There's been lots of
> others.  The scariest one ever was at the pedestrian crosswalk.  I had
> pushed the button and had the light to cross.   We were half or a little
> more across when a lady ran the red light and came within inches of
> turning us into road pizza.  Monty did this ninja maneuver to get us out
> of the way with about a hair's breadth to spare.  One gentleman who saw
> it thought Monty had been hit because of the way he moved.  It was that
> close.
>
> I know of other owner trainers who have used two way radios or other
> communication tools to keep in constant contact with the driver while
> they are training traffic.  It's a good idea, but I haven't done that.
> I just talk things through with the driver so I know what to expect.
> And of course there's going to be natural occurring traffic checks
> throughout the training process.  For those you just have to do the best
> that you can.  All the same safety rules apply that you would observe if
> you were using a cane.  You just have to remember that it is your
> absolute responsibility to keep the team safe, not the dog's, until the
> very end of training when the dog shows competence in traffic.  Then you
> are still responsible, but the dog helps. You get what I mean.
>
> HTH
> Julie
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Sherry Gomes
> Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 3:19 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Owner trainers
>
> Hey Julie,
>
> thank you for this informative message. The idea of hiring a trainer for my
> next dog has been brewing in my head, as I expect I won't return to GDB
> unless they undo some of the damage they did to their program this year. I
> also with my other disabilities, don't feel I could easily start over at a
> different program. I also don't think I could have the time to train my own
> dog. So, I've considered hiring someone, when the time comes. Out of
> curiosity, do you train your dogs to do traffic checks,a nd if so, how?
>
> Thanks again for this great message. I enjoyed reading it so much.Sherry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
> Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 1:54 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Owner trainers
>
> I just picked out a puppy that is being privately trained for me.
> Coincidentally the private trainer is also blind. I wrote about it recently
> on the list...maybe a month ago or so.
>
> In short I was looking for a puppy who was friendly, interested in what was
> going on around her, bold, and confident.  I relied quite a bit on the
> Puppy
>
> Aptitude Test, somewhat on the breeders suggestion and my own instincts.
> There is a significant correlation between the retrieve puppy test and
> successful guide dogs.
>
> I think the most difficult part of owner training is finding a puppy or dog
> that has the temperament to make a good guide.  I've been thinking about
> what I want in my next dog since I finished training Monty four years ago.
> I started looking for a breeder last fall and finally things came together
> this summer.
>
> The second most difficult part is raising the puppy.  Monty and Belle were
> older puppies when I got them.  They were a handful, but Miss Jetta at 8
> weeks old required more work than three of Monty.  Baby puppies know
> nothing...what to chew on, when to sleep, where to sleep, how to be on
> their
>
> own, where to pee...It's like having a newborn baby, except a puppy can
> walk, run, jump, has teeth and gets into everything.  They are cute though!
> *smile*
>
> The actual guide training is the easy part.  By this point, you should have
> a well socialized dog with nice manners who knows how to learn.   It's like
> dog college.  College students want to be there.  they are dedicated
> learners.  Compare that with a preschool or kindergarten.  I suppose a
> really good early childhood teacher could keep a neat, clean, quiet and
> orderly room, but mostly there's a lot of finger-paint on the walls, snot
> running from noses, many trips to the bathroom, lots of running and
> shouting
>
> and general mayhem.  See what I mean?  Seriously, the guide part is a
> breeze!
>
> So there are some options when training a new dog...you can use your
> cane to
>
> find obstacles and curbs so you can teach the dog what you want when you
> encounter them.  Or you can use a familiar environment, like your front
> yard
>
> with maybe some set up cues to help you, like a radio on the front porch or
> a rug at the top of the steps or things like that.  another method is to
> work your current guide and have the trainee tag along.  The younger dog
> will pick up a lot from the older more experienced dog.  Of course that
> only
>
> works if you have a current working dog.
>
> Each method has advantages and disadvantages.  Probably a mix of approaches
> is what ends up working.  I mostly introduce things in a familiar
> environment, then supplement with the use of a cane.  I also worked Monty
> only in areas where I was reasonably certain of my safety given his current
> level of training.  So if he didn't know to stop at stairs, I didn't take
> him to places with stairs without a back up plan, until he mastered that
> skill.  This meant that I would prescout places to train with him.
>
> No, you don't have to go through any training to owner train a guide
> dog.  I
>
> had a lot of experience training dogs in other capacities before I trained
> my first guide, but zero experience training a guide dog.  I have never had
> a guide from a program.  I've trained three guides and my next guide is ten
> weeks old and living with her trainer.  I just didn't have the energy to
> owner train again.  It's an incredible amount of time and energy.
>
> To teach a dog to stop at curbs is really easy.  I approach the curb with
> the dog, I stop at the curb where I want the dog to stop.  I prefer just a
> bit back from the edge, instead of having my toes hang over.  The dog
> should
>
> stop with you because they have already been taught to walk nicely on
> leash.
>
> When the dog stops, click and treat or tell him good boy and give pets or
> whatever method you use.  Rinse and repeat.  The dog will learn extremely
> quickly that he should stop at the curb to receive his accolades.  Then
> with
>
> the dog in harness or on leash but a bit ahead, pay special attention to
> any
>
> indication that the dog is slowing or stopping before you do.  Click and
> treat the moment he shows that he is stopping or hesitating at the curb.
> rinse and repeat until the dog takes the initiative to stop before you
> stop.
>
> Now take the show on the road and practice with other curbs.  Once that is
> mastered, add in blended curbs.  Teaching to stop at stairs is the next
> level of this training.  Just keep layering skills onto the basic building
> blocks the dog already knows.  It's like Legos!
>
> There is no book about training your own guide dog currently available.  I
> am working on one.  I had hoped to have it out about two years ago now.
> *sigh*   It is in the final revision phase.  I need to fix some punctuation
> problems.  I've also been asked to include more about the actual how to
> parts of owner training.  I haven't decided if I want to do that or not.
> Anyway when I do finally get the book done, I will be self publishing it as
> an eBook.  I'll let everyone know when that happens.  We'll have to have a
> party or something.  I've been working on this project for forever!
>
> Julie
>
>
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