[nagdu] Owner trainers
Bridget Walker
bridgetawalker13 at aol.com
Tue Aug 20 03:16:34 UTC 2013
Hi All,
I'm with Ken on this one.I could never own/train my dog. It is just one of those things I leave up to a training program.I'm not saying it can't be done because I would have some true paradigm paralysis. With that I must ask about the certification evaluation. Who evaluates and determines if the dog becomes a service dog? How does one obtain the equipment and identification? I know you can go on line and buy a harness but, not saying owner trainers are doing this in any way but what about frauds. How do the owner trainers identify them selfs?
I. Know there is a lot of talk especially in New York City about fake service dogs. How do the owner trainers get around the confusion without the help of a training program name. GEB GDF This is just my own curiosity because I really don't know and would like to be better informed.
Bridget and Paulson
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 19, 2013, at 6:22 PM, "Ken Ace" <ken at acenovels.com> wrote:
> Self training is NOT something my temperament would support. Fortunately for
> my dog I recognize that and leave it to the professionals. It makes for a
> much more plesant world.
> K&A
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tami Jarvis
> Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 6:17 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Owner trainers
>
> Minh, Sherrie, Julie, everyone else..
>
> The steps Julie listed for the OT (owner-trainer) process match what I tend
> to think of based on what I've learned from others and my own experience.
>
> I tend to list self-analysis as Step One. Some questions you might ask
> yourself would have to do with whether you can follow through on an
> intensive, all-consuming project for anywhere from 6 months to 2 years.
> This would include looking at a projection of how stable you can expect your
> life to be, how your resources are, etc. I know a few people who I think
> would probably do very well at owner-training who have decided at some point
> in this process that it is probably not for them for reasons that make
> perfect sense. They don't want to tackle the dangers of traffic training,
> for instance, so would rather have a professional do that. Or they simply
> don't have time or budget or energy or certainty that they could maintain
> any or all of the above for the duration of the training process. Others,
> obviously, decide to go ahead and start hunting for the right pup. Two
> things you will absolutely need, from what I have learned of other
> successful OTs: Superlative O&M skills, especially the orientation part; and
> the ability to remain calm and rational when it's about to hit the fan to
> ensure that it doesn't while also communicating with and teaching a young
> dog. This seems to come more easily to some people than to others, and only
> you can know if you have that ability or can build it.
>
> Another part of the training is to prepare the pup for public access.
> You can do a ton of groundwork, but sooner or later you will have to take
> the dog into places of public accommodation which are generally pretty
> high-stimulus and where there is a certain amount of pressure to have your
> youngster be perfect. If you can do all the rest, you can find the balance
> to pull it off. But the added hurdle there is the gray areas in the law
> about public access and dogs in training. The early exposure is important,
> but can you call the pup task trained? And even if it is (Mitzi learned her
> first legit task in the first month), is it ready for public access (Mitzi
> was totally *not*!)? I used gradual exposure to similar situations and
> stimuli, then took to sitting near outdoor eateries, then sitting in them
> and actually enjoying a cup of coffee and stuff like that. My poodle pup was
> pretty excitable -- as a super mellow member of her breed, apparently, which
> scares me -- so I had to take it slow and really work teaching her to keep
> herself calm. There was a lot of levitating and wriggling. One reason I want
> to start a younger pup next time is to get some of that conditioning in
> while it is still timid and impressionable. Not sure my nerves will survive
> another mustang poodle. /shudder/ For indoor trainining, I did my own PR
> with various stores in my area and just explained what I was doing, the
> legalities were technically there by then but not the etiquette, did they
> mind if I brought her in when it wasn't too busy to work on that? I assured
> them that if she got out of hand, they could have me removed while promising
> to take her out myself if she wasn't ready to act like a grown up. They were
> great, and this worked as I gradually got her to the point I could actually
> buy a pack of gum without my dog defying the laws of physics out of
> excitement. The wiggling and all was embarrassing, even if everyone else
> thought it was adorable and hysterical. Sigh. I need Tums thinking about it!
> /lol/
>
> Change of messages I am replying to: Finish the book, Julie! I'm going to
> need that! /grin/
>
> Tami
>
> On 08/19/2013 01:50 PM, Julie J. wrote:
>> Yes, I do traffic training with my dogs. Traffic avoidance is one of
>> those top level skills. There is a lot of building blocks to get
>> there. First, the dog must understand stationary obstacles, on the
>> left and right. Next would be maybe pedestrian traffic of a normal
>> variety, think people at a bank, post office, office building etc.
>> Next maybe larger crowds and more sporadic walking patterns, think
>> shopping malls, Wal-Mart on Saturday morning, kids at a playground
>> etc. The next level might be small wheeled obstacles. I have my
>> Kiddo wheel our large trash bin around to do this part. It's loud so
>> I know what's going on every step of the process. Shopping carts,
>> responsible bicyclist, roller skaters etc. would be other examples in
>> this category. then move up to kids on skateboards not paying too
>> much attention, bicyclists talking on their phones, Moms with 7 kids
>> who are talking on their phone while pushing the shopping cart at
>> Wal-Mart on the Saturday morning...you get the idea. Accidents up to
>> this point are going to be unpleasant, but not fatal.
>>
>> Once the dog has a solid understanding of moving obstacles and I do
>> mean solid, then find a friend or family member who likes you and get
>> them to drive at you, but not to actually harm you. I start in the
>> driveway with the car pulling in as I'm walking down the sidewalk.
>> Move to more difficult situations, car turning right in front of you
>> as you cross the street, car backing up, etc. Your dog already knows
>> obstacle avoidance, the traffic is just practice with bigger and faster
> obstacles.
>>
>> Monty is super traffic aware. He paused just last night in the
>> Wal-Mart parking lot because there was a car backing out. There's an
>> alley I have to cross on my way to work that has a building right next
>> to it, completely blocking the driver's view of any approaching
> pedestrians.
>> We get a traffic check there every few weeks. There's been lots of
>> others. The scariest one ever was at the pedestrian crosswalk. I had
>> pushed the button and had the light to cross. We were half or a little
>> more across when a lady ran the red light and came within inches of
>> turning us into road pizza. Monty did this ninja maneuver to get us
>> out of the way with about a hair's breadth to spare. One gentleman
>> who saw it thought Monty had been hit because of the way he moved. It
>> was that close.
>>
>> I know of other owner trainers who have used two way radios or other
>> communication tools to keep in constant contact with the driver while
>> they are training traffic. It's a good idea, but I haven't done that.
>> I just talk things through with the driver so I know what to expect.
>> And of course there's going to be natural occurring traffic checks
>> throughout the training process. For those you just have to do the
>> best that you can. All the same safety rules apply that you would
>> observe if you were using a cane. You just have to remember that it
>> is your absolute responsibility to keep the team safe, not the dog's,
>> until the very end of training when the dog shows competence in
>> traffic. Then you are still responsible, but the dog helps. You get what
> I mean.
>>
>> HTH
>> Julie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Sherry Gomes
>> Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 3:19 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Owner trainers
>>
>> Hey Julie,
>>
>> thank you for this informative message. The idea of hiring a trainer
>> for my next dog has been brewing in my head, as I expect I won't
>> return to GDB unless they undo some of the damage they did to their
>> program this year. I also with my other disabilities, don't feel I
>> could easily start over at a different program. I also don't think I
>> could have the time to train my own dog. So, I've considered hiring
>> someone, when the time comes. Out of curiosity, do you train your dogs to
> do traffic checks,a nd if so, how?
>>
>> Thanks again for this great message. I enjoyed reading it so
>> much.Sherry
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
>> Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 1:54 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Owner trainers
>>
>> I just picked out a puppy that is being privately trained for me.
>> Coincidentally the private trainer is also blind. I wrote about it
>> recently on the list...maybe a month ago or so.
>>
>> In short I was looking for a puppy who was friendly, interested in
>> what was going on around her, bold, and confident. I relied quite a
>> bit on the Puppy
>>
>> Aptitude Test, somewhat on the breeders suggestion and my own instincts.
>> There is a significant correlation between the retrieve puppy test and
>> successful guide dogs.
>>
>> I think the most difficult part of owner training is finding a puppy
>> or dog that has the temperament to make a good guide. I've been
>> thinking about what I want in my next dog since I finished training Monty
> four years ago.
>> I started looking for a breeder last fall and finally things came
>> together this summer.
>>
>> The second most difficult part is raising the puppy. Monty and Belle
>> were older puppies when I got them. They were a handful, but Miss
>> Jetta at 8 weeks old required more work than three of Monty. Baby
>> puppies know nothing...what to chew on, when to sleep, where to sleep,
>> how to be on their
>>
>> own, where to pee...It's like having a newborn baby, except a puppy
>> can walk, run, jump, has teeth and gets into everything. They are cute
> though!
>> *smile*
>>
>> The actual guide training is the easy part. By this point, you should
> have
>> a well socialized dog with nice manners who knows how to learn. It's
> like
>> dog college. College students want to be there. they are dedicated
>> learners. Compare that with a preschool or kindergarten. I suppose a
>> really good early childhood teacher could keep a neat, clean, quiet
>> and orderly room, but mostly there's a lot of finger-paint on the
>> walls, snot running from noses, many trips to the bathroom, lots of
>> running and shouting
>>
>> and general mayhem. See what I mean? Seriously, the guide part is a
>> breeze!
>>
>> So there are some options when training a new dog...you can use your
>> cane to
>>
>> find obstacles and curbs so you can teach the dog what you want when
>> you encounter them. Or you can use a familiar environment, like your
>> front yard
>>
>> with maybe some set up cues to help you, like a radio on the front
>> porch or a rug at the top of the steps or things like that. another
>> method is to work your current guide and have the trainee tag along.
>> The younger dog will pick up a lot from the older more experienced
>> dog. Of course that only
>>
>> works if you have a current working dog.
>>
>> Each method has advantages and disadvantages. Probably a mix of
>> approaches is what ends up working. I mostly introduce things in a
>> familiar environment, then supplement with the use of a cane. I also
>> worked Monty only in areas where I was reasonably certain of my safety
>> given his current level of training. So if he didn't know to stop at
>> stairs, I didn't take him to places with stairs without a back up
>> plan, until he mastered that skill. This meant that I would prescout
> places to train with him.
>>
>> No, you don't have to go through any training to owner train a guide
>> dog. I
>>
>> had a lot of experience training dogs in other capacities before I
>> trained my first guide, but zero experience training a guide dog. I
>> have never had a guide from a program. I've trained three guides and
>> my next guide is ten weeks old and living with her trainer. I just
>> didn't have the energy to owner train again. It's an incredible amount of
> time and energy.
>>
>> To teach a dog to stop at curbs is really easy. I approach the curb
>> with the dog, I stop at the curb where I want the dog to stop. I
>> prefer just a bit back from the edge, instead of having my toes hang
>> over. The dog should
>>
>> stop with you because they have already been taught to walk nicely on
>> leash.
>>
>> When the dog stops, click and treat or tell him good boy and give pets
>> or whatever method you use. Rinse and repeat. The dog will learn
>> extremely quickly that he should stop at the curb to receive his
>> accolades. Then with
>>
>> the dog in harness or on leash but a bit ahead, pay special attention
>> to any
>>
>> indication that the dog is slowing or stopping before you do. Click
>> and treat the moment he shows that he is stopping or hesitating at the
> curb.
>> rinse and repeat until the dog takes the initiative to stop before you
>> stop.
>>
>> Now take the show on the road and practice with other curbs. Once
>> that is mastered, add in blended curbs. Teaching to stop at stairs is
>> the next level of this training. Just keep layering skills onto the
>> basic building blocks the dog already knows. It's like Legos!
>>
>> There is no book about training your own guide dog currently
>> available. I am working on one. I had hoped to have it out about two
> years ago now.
>> *sigh* It is in the final revision phase. I need to fix some
> punctuation
>> problems. I've also been asked to include more about the actual how
>> to parts of owner training. I haven't decided if I want to do that or
> not.
>> Anyway when I do finally get the book done, I will be self publishing
>> it as an eBook. I'll let everyone know when that happens. We'll have
>> to have a party or something. I've been working on this project for
> forever!
>>
>> Julie
>>
>>
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