[nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home (was I'm back)

Fri Aug 23 10:21:43 UTC 2013

Yeah, I agree. I think the rules are more for guidelines when we get home. I
certainly change them. Depending on the dog, I let them off leash or
tie-down much earlier. I let them sleep on my bed. I give them treats from
my hand not their bowl. I do heel my dogs off buses but that's due to my
disabilities and needing to hold onto something on both sides. There are
some rules I never have changed, but those are things I consider deeply
serious and for the dog's benefit and safety as well as my own.

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shanna Stichler
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 11:40 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home (was I'm back)

With my program dogs, I think I stuck to the school rules at first for 
each one. Once I got to know the dog better, then I deviated from those 
guidelines when I needed to. I have never used GDB's "over here" 
command, which is when the dog switches sides in order to go through 
doors opening toward the team. I found that it just wasn't practical for 
me, so I came up with a method that sounds pretty similar to what TSE 
uses, actually. :D I also did clicker work with my dogs, and this was 
before GDB was using clicker training in their program. Oh, and I 
always, always switched their food to something I liked better.

I think mostly, the schools have all these rules because they want to 
cover every possible eventuality, if that makes sense. Mostly, they're 
sound enough, but it's fine to come up with different methods that work 
better for us when we get home. JMO though, of course.

Shanna and Diamond
On 8/22/2013 3:26 PM, Shannon Dyer wrote:
> This is really sound advice, Tracy. While in class, we are in a controled
environment. Therefore, the school rules can and do work for us. However,
once we get home, and our dogs have to function in the environment we're
used to, things can change.
>
> Like you, I stopped doing the door thing pretty quickly after coming home
with each of my dogs. I've also never understood heeling the dog off a bus.
Too much of a chance of injury, IMO.
>
> Shannon and Ace
> On Aug 22, 2013, at 11:20 AM, "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
wrote:
>
>> I usually change the rules when I get home, if I find the school rules
aren't working for me.  I say, give the school rules a fair try, because
they may have some real value, but chuck them if they don't work for me.
>> One example is what I think of as the TSE pirouette, a maneuver for
opening a door and going through it with the dog.  I gave it a fair try at
the school, but shortly after I got home I went back to the way I'd been
doing things and totally forgot it.
>> Another example is that, many years ago, GDB taught that I should heel
the dog off of a bus.  I did that, until I stepped into a hole, or smashed
into a pole right outside the door--I'm sure both these things
happened--then I decided it was a stupid thing to do and have worked the dog
off the bus ever since.
>> IMO, while many of the rules I've been taught in class do have value,
some others seem to have been made up by people with no practical experience
in the world I live in, and I will use my good judgement to decide which are
which.
>> Tracy
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheila Leigland"
<sleigland at bresnan.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:11 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I'm back
>>
>>
>>> hi lyn well stated. I know a handler that goes out of the way to do
everything differently than the school trains to do. I do know that some
things work better for some dogs than others but the principles are still
the same.
>>> On 8/21/2013 11:41 AM, L Gwizdak wrote:
>>>> Hi Chantel,
>>>> I don't think Jenny said that ALL Pilot grads were idiots. LOL! I've
seen my share of poor handlers since 1971!  they came from all schools.
Part of what I've seen is that grads will sometimes decide that the school
is full of crap when the school asks you to do things in a certain way when
you get home with a new dog.  the grad blows off the school and does things
as they please - not realizing that the school tells you things because they
do really know better what has worked and not worked for grads when they get
home.
>>>>
>>>> At TSE, EVERYTHING done has a purpose!  Even the simple things like
going to the dining room for meals.  At lunch time, all the employees and
guests have lunch with us during the week.  For us students, they have us
come in after the staff and guests are already eating and they are seated
near the door in the first section of the dining room.  We are required to
work our dogs past these tables with people eating at them.  This
arrangement sets up a situation that we will find when we go to restaurants.
Every day, we are practicing how to work the dogs in a restaurant type
setting.  In lecture, our dogs are in harness and lying quietly at our feet.
This is like if wwe were at a meeting we would go to when we get home.
>>>>
>>>> I do think some schools are more thorouogh in some things than other
schools.  I see that some other schools do not place a premium on getting
dogs out of the way when we are sitting in a meeting where we sit at tables.
Some of the dog users just let their dogs lie on the floor in the way where
they get tripped over.  The Seeing Eye is a real stickler on this issue of
making sure our dogs are out of the way - under chairs or the table where
they will not be tripped over.
>>>>
>>>> But many problems are from lax handling by new users AND long-time
handlers because they don't think about what they are doing.
>>>>
>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is
like asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chantel Cuddemi"
<jawsgirl87 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 11:59 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I'm back
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Jenny,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am a Pilot grad, and I went through the achievement walk twice, and
I had
>>>>> to stay for extra training.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, are you saying that all Pilot grads are idiots? Pilot's name is
engraved
>>>>> on Motley's harness.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chantel and Motley.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Snow White
Dove
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 2:20 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I'm back
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I got Shasta at Pilot.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was and am astounded by their training of their dogs and their
students.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know they have a fowl reputation.  but when I was there, I saw why.
>>>>>
>>>>> There were a couple of women ther that never should've gotten their
dogs
>>>>> because they didn't have to go through the full achievement walk to
>>>>> determine whether they are fit for a dog.
>>>>>
>>>>> Basically what I'm trying to say, politely, but truthfully is, that
the
>>>>> reputation of Pilot is marred only by the idiots they let go home with
dogs
>>>>> they sshouldn't have giving to people.
>>>>>
>>>>> For any questions on the details of this opinion.  Please email me off
list
>>>>> so as to not clutter the list.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just have to say this.  Pilot is, in my opinion, being considered a
less
>>>>> than desirable school ecause of the idiots that are seen because
they're
>>>>> obviously not suited to have a dog and Pilot's name is on that
harness.
>>>>>
>>>>> No one sees Pilot on the harnesses of those who handle their dogs well
and
>>>>> just blend in.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, I'm done gushing over my experiences.  Please don't feel
offended by
>>>>> anything I might have said.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I've overstepped my bounds with the moderators.  Please know that
>>>>> apologize.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jenny
>>>>> On Aug 19, 2013, at 7:34 PM, Marsha Drenth <marsha.drenth at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jenny,
>>>>>> congratulations!
>>>>>> What an interesting name..Where did you get Mr Shasta? I don't
remember
>>>>> what school you apply to. Sorry.
>>>>>> May you both have many years of wonderful working relationship
together.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marsha drenth
>>>>>> Sent with my IPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 19, 2013, at 7:02 PM, Snow White Dove <jlperdue3 at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wanted to write to tell you all that I finally did it.  I know
>>>>> Cynprobably let you guys know already, but I figured I'd write myself.
>>>>>>> I came home August 9th with an English Black lab named Shasta.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He's a wonderful worker and has a great personality, but boy I
wasn't
>>>>> sure of the personality part in the beginning or whether I could
handle him
>>>>> at all.
>>>>>>> If he had not been on leash I think he'd have bounced off the walls
all
>>>>> on his own steam.
>>>>>>> He settled down, and things are pretty cool now, but being 19 months
old,
>>>>> he's a chewer.  I've had him on leash since I got him, and everything
was
>>>>> fine till I got home with my brand new leather leash which he chewed
in half
>>>>> in a perfectly streight line in two seconds flat.
>>>>>>> Needless to say, I was embarrassed to call the school to order a new
>>>>> leash, but more embarrassed when the head trainer answered the phone.
He
>>>>> was cool about it, well for him, and said to give him a couple of
weeks to
>>>>> get more leashes as theyn were out.
>>>>>>> I'm hoping they'll just give me a new one, but I don't think I'll be
that
>>>>> lucky.
>>>>>>> Also, he appears to be a dog, but is a beaver.  He eats anything
wooden
>>>>> outside, and I can't seem to break him of it.  I've said no, leash
>>>>> corrections, drop it and removed sticks and twigs from his mouth.  ug.
>>>>>>> Hope to hear from you guys soon.  I just did a mass delete before I
wrote
>>>>> you all, so if you wrote me about Shasta, please forgive me and send
it
>>>>> again.
>>>>>>> Have a great day.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jenny
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmail.com
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jlperdue3%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
>>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jawsgirl87%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/leg1950%40cox.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sleigland%40bresnan.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/solsticesinger%40gmail.co
m
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/slstich%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sherriola%40gmail.com