[nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home (was I'm back)

Fri Aug 23 14:04:37 UTC 2013

Yes.  IMO, the rule about keeping the dog out of the way is a good one, and 
I've stuck to it throughout.  And, in my area, the rule about not letting 
the dog off leash in an unfenced area, and staying with him even in a fenced 
yard is a good one.
With my first dog, I was very strict about following the school rules, but 
I've loosened up considerably over the years.  My sister was laughing at me 
the other day, comparing how much Ben is allowed that Glade wasn't.  But 
we're happy, and Ben is under control and works well, so it's OK.
Tracy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sherry Gomes" <sherriola at gmail.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:21 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home (was I'm back)

> Yeah, I agree. I think the rules are more for guidelines when we get home. 
> I
> certainly change them. Depending on the dog, I let them off leash or
> tie-down much earlier. I let them sleep on my bed. I give them treats from
> my hand not their bowl. I do heel my dogs off buses but that's due to my
> disabilities and needing to hold onto something on both sides. There are
> some rules I never have changed, but those are things I consider deeply
> serious and for the dog's benefit and safety as well as my own.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shanna Stichler
> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 11:40 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home (was I'm back)
>
> With my program dogs, I think I stuck to the school rules at first for
> each one. Once I got to know the dog better, then I deviated from those
> guidelines when I needed to. I have never used GDB's "over here"
> command, which is when the dog switches sides in order to go through
> doors opening toward the team. I found that it just wasn't practical for
> me, so I came up with a method that sounds pretty similar to what TSE
> uses, actually. :D I also did clicker work with my dogs, and this was
> before GDB was using clicker training in their program. Oh, and I
> always, always switched their food to something I liked better.
>
> I think mostly, the schools have all these rules because they want to
> cover every possible eventuality, if that makes sense. Mostly, they're
> sound enough, but it's fine to come up with different methods that work
> better for us when we get home. JMO though, of course.
>
> Shanna and Diamond
> On 8/22/2013 3:26 PM, Shannon Dyer wrote:
>> This is really sound advice, Tracy. While in class, we are in a controled
> environment. Therefore, the school rules can and do work for us. However,
> once we get home, and our dogs have to function in the environment we're
> used to, things can change.
>>
>> Like you, I stopped doing the door thing pretty quickly after coming home
> with each of my dogs. I've also never understood heeling the dog off a 
> bus.
> Too much of a chance of injury, IMO.
>>
>> Shannon and Ace
>> On Aug 22, 2013, at 11:20 AM, "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
> wrote:
>>
>>> I usually change the rules when I get home, if I find the school rules
> aren't working for me.  I say, give the school rules a fair try, because
> they may have some real value, but chuck them if they don't work for me.
>>> One example is what I think of as the TSE pirouette, a maneuver for
> opening a door and going through it with the dog.  I gave it a fair try at
> the school, but shortly after I got home I went back to the way I'd been
> doing things and totally forgot it.
>>> Another example is that, many years ago, GDB taught that I should heel
> the dog off of a bus.  I did that, until I stepped into a hole, or smashed
> into a pole right outside the door--I'm sure both these things
> happened--then I decided it was a stupid thing to do and have worked the 
> dog
> off the bus ever since.
>>> IMO, while many of the rules I've been taught in class do have value,
> some others seem to have been made up by people with no practical 
> experience
> in the world I live in, and I will use my good judgement to decide which 
> are
> which.
>>> Tracy
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheila Leigland"
> <sleigland at bresnan.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:11 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I'm back
>>>
>>>
>>>> hi lyn well stated. I know a handler that goes out of the way to do
> everything differently than the school trains to do. I do know that some
> things work better for some dogs than others but the principles are still
> the same.
>>>> On 8/21/2013 11:41 AM, L Gwizdak wrote:
>>>>> Hi Chantel,
>>>>> I don't think Jenny said that ALL Pilot grads were idiots. LOL! I've
> seen my share of poor handlers since 1971!  they came from all schools.
> Part of what I've seen is that grads will sometimes decide that the school
> is full of crap when the school asks you to do things in a certain way 
> when
> you get home with a new dog.  the grad blows off the school and does 
> things
> as they please - not realizing that the school tells you things because 
> they
> do really know better what has worked and not worked for grads when they 
> get
> home.
>>>>>
>>>>> At TSE, EVERYTHING done has a purpose!  Even the simple things like
> going to the dining room for meals.  At lunch time, all the employees and
> guests have lunch with us during the week.  For us students, they have us
> come in after the staff and guests are already eating and they are seated
> near the door in the first section of the dining room.  We are required to
> work our dogs past these tables with people eating at them.  This
> arrangement sets up a situation that we will find when we go to 
> restaurants.
> Every day, we are practicing how to work the dogs in a restaurant type
> setting.  In lecture, our dogs are in harness and lying quietly at our 
> feet.
> This is like if wwe were at a meeting we would go to when we get home.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do think some schools are more thorouogh in some things than other
> schools.  I see that some other schools do not place a premium on getting
> dogs out of the way when we are sitting in a meeting where we sit at 
> tables.
> Some of the dog users just let their dogs lie on the floor in the way 
> where
> they get tripped over.  The Seeing Eye is a real stickler on this issue of
> making sure our dogs are out of the way - under chairs or the table where
> they will not be tripped over.
>>>>>
>>>>> But many problems are from lax handling by new users AND long-time
> handlers because they don't think about what they are doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is
> like asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chantel Cuddemi"
> <jawsgirl87 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 11:59 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I'm back
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jenny,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am a Pilot grad, and I went through the achievement walk twice, and
> I had
>>>>>> to stay for extra training.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, are you saying that all Pilot grads are idiots? Pilot's name is
> engraved
>>>>>> on Motley's harness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chantel and Motley.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Snow White
> Dove
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 2:20 PM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I'm back
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I got Shasta at Pilot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was and am astounded by their training of their dogs and their
> students.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know they have a fowl reputation.  but when I was there, I saw why.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There were a couple of women ther that never should've gotten their
> dogs
>>>>>> because they didn't have to go through the full achievement walk to
>>>>>> determine whether they are fit for a dog.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Basically what I'm trying to say, politely, but truthfully is, that
> the
>>>>>> reputation of Pilot is marred only by the idiots they let go home 
>>>>>> with
> dogs
>>>>>> they sshouldn't have giving to people.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For any questions on the details of this opinion.  Please email me 
>>>>>> off
> list
>>>>>> so as to not clutter the list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just have to say this.  Pilot is, in my opinion, being considered a
> less
>>>>>> than desirable school ecause of the idiots that are seen because
> they're
>>>>>> obviously not suited to have a dog and Pilot's name is on that
> harness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No one sees Pilot on the harnesses of those who handle their dogs 
>>>>>> well
> and
>>>>>> just blend in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, I'm done gushing over my experiences.  Please don't feel
> offended by
>>>>>> anything I might have said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I've overstepped my bounds with the moderators.  Please know that
>>>>>> apologize.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jenny
>>>>>> On Aug 19, 2013, at 7:34 PM, Marsha Drenth <marsha.drenth at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jenny,
>>>>>>> congratulations!
>>>>>>> What an interesting name..Where did you get Mr Shasta? I don't
> remember
>>>>>> what school you apply to. Sorry.
>>>>>>> May you both have many years of wonderful working relationship
> together.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marsha drenth
>>>>>>> Sent with my IPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 19, 2013, at 7:02 PM, Snow White Dove <jlperdue3 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wanted to write to tell you all that I finally did it.  I know
>>>>>> Cynprobably let you guys know already, but I figured I'd write 
>>>>>> myself.
>>>>>>>> I came home August 9th with an English Black lab named Shasta.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He's a wonderful worker and has a great personality, but boy I
> wasn't
>>>>>> sure of the personality part in the beginning or whether I could
> handle him
>>>>>> at all.
>>>>>>>> If he had not been on leash I think he'd have bounced off the walls
> all
>>>>>> on his own steam.
>>>>>>>> He settled down, and things are pretty cool now, but being 19 
>>>>>>>> months
> old,
>>>>>> he's a chewer.  I've had him on leash since I got him, and everything
> was
>>>>>> fine till I got home with my brand new leather leash which he chewed
> in half
>>>>>> in a perfectly streight line in two seconds flat.
>>>>>>>> Needless to say, I was embarrassed to call the school to order a 
>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>> leash, but more embarrassed when the head trainer answered the phone.
> He
>>>>>> was cool about it, well for him, and said to give him a couple of
> weeks to
>>>>>> get more leashes as theyn were out.
>>>>>>>> I'm hoping they'll just give me a new one, but I don't think I'll 
>>>>>>>> be
> that
>>>>>> lucky.
>>>>>>>> Also, he appears to be a dog, but is a beaver.  He eats anything
> wooden
>>>>>> outside, and I can't seem to break him of it.  I've said no, leash
>>>>>> corrections, drop it and removed sticks and twigs from his mouth. 
>>>>>> ug.
>>>>>>>> Hope to hear from you guys soon.  I just did a mass delete before I
> wrote
>>>>>> you all, so if you wrote me about Shasta, please forgive me and send
> it
>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>> Have a great day.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jenny
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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