[nagdu] Over here command

Tracy Carcione carcione at access.net
Fri Aug 23 17:45:13 UTC 2013 

If I'm in a fairly quiet place, I'll bring Ben around to my right side, then 
open the door and heel him through.  But frequently I have to go through 
doors in busy places, so I reach across, grab the door with my right hand, 
open it carefully, and work Ben through.
For some reason, there is a closed door in the corridor between the subway 
and the bus terminal, with people constantly going in and out.  I can't see 
doing either the pirouette or heeling through there; we could end up 
trampled, or trampling.
Tracy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Aleeha Dudley" <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Over here command


> Hey Deanna,
> The seeing eye teaches you to do turn so that your back is against the 
> door, dropping the harness handle. Then you can call your dog through the 
> door, pick up the handle, and move on. I really like this technique.
> Aleeha and Dallas, who is rather sniffy today.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 23, 2013, at 11:21, Deanna Lewis <DLewis at clovernook.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi Shanna,
>> When you were talking about the doors and the command "over here" it got 
>> me thinking. You said that the way you did it was like Seeing Eye does, 
>> but what is their technique? What do other schools teach for having the 
>> dog move to the right side so that you can open a door when the hinges 
>> are on the left side? So that you can heal the dog through without them 
>> getting hit by the door. I hope this makes sense /smiles/.
>> I feel that I am pretty lenient with Pascal, since he is my first dog. 
>> But, I want to be more strict with my successor dogs. Pascal has very 
>> good behavior, but he is also a bit spoiled! And he's very stubborn!
>> Deanna and Pascal
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shanna 
>> Stichler
>> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 1:40 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home (was I'm back)
>>
>> With my program dogs, I think I stuck to the school rules at first for 
>> each one. Once I got to know the dog better, then I deviated from those 
>> guidelines when I needed to. I have never used GDB's "over here"
>> command, which is when the dog switches sides in order to go through 
>> doors opening toward the team. I found that it just wasn't practical for 
>> me, so I came up with a method that sounds pretty similar to what TSE 
>> uses, actually. :D I also did clicker work with my dogs, and this was 
>> before GDB was using clicker training in their program. Oh, and I always, 
>> always switched their food to something I liked better.
>>
>> I think mostly, the schools have all these rules because they want to 
>> cover every possible eventuality, if that makes sense. Mostly, they're 
>> sound enough, but it's fine to come up with different methods that work 
>> better for us when we get home. JMO though, of course.
>>
>> Shanna and Diamond
>> On 8/22/2013 3:26 PM, Shannon Dyer wrote:
>>> This is really sound advice, Tracy. While in class, we are in a 
>>> controled environment. Therefore, the school rules can and do work for 
>>> us. However, once we get home, and our dogs have to function in the 
>>> environment we're used to, things can change.
>>>
>>> Like you, I stopped doing the door thing pretty quickly after coming 
>>> home with each of my dogs. I've also never understood heeling the dog 
>>> off a bus. Too much of a chance of injury, IMO.
>>>
>>> Shannon and Ace
>>> On Aug 22, 2013, at 11:20 AM, "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I usually change the rules when I get home, if I find the school rules 
>>>> aren't working for me.  I say, give the school rules a fair try, 
>>>> because they may have some real value, but chuck them if they don't 
>>>> work for me.
>>>> One example is what I think of as the TSE pirouette, a maneuver for 
>>>> opening a door and going through it with the dog.  I gave it a fair try 
>>>> at the school, but shortly after I got home I went back to the way I'd 
>>>> been doing things and totally forgot it.
>>>> Another example is that, many years ago, GDB taught that I should heel 
>>>> the dog off of a bus.  I did that, until I stepped into a hole, or 
>>>> smashed into a pole right outside the door--I'm sure both these things 
>>>> happened--then I decided it was a stupid thing to do and have worked 
>>>> the dog off the bus ever since.
>>>> IMO, while many of the rules I've been taught in class do have value, 
>>>> some others seem to have been made up by people with no practical 
>>>> experience in the world I live in, and I will use my good judgement to 
>>>> decide which are which.
>>>> Tracy
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheila Leigland"
>>>> <sleigland at bresnan.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:11 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I'm back
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> hi lyn well stated. I know a handler that goes out of the way to do 
>>>>> everything differently than the school trains to do. I do know that 
>>>>> some things work better for some dogs than others but the principles 
>>>>> are still the same.
>>>>> On 8/21/2013 11:41 AM, L Gwizdak wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Chantel,
>>>>>> I don't think Jenny said that ALL Pilot grads were idiots. LOL! I've 
>>>>>> seen my share of poor handlers since 1971!  they came from all 
>>>>>> schools.  Part of what I've seen is that grads will sometimes decide 
>>>>>> that the school is full of crap when the school asks you to do things 
>>>>>> in a certain way when you get home with a new dog.  the grad blows 
>>>>>> off the school and does things as they please - not realizing that 
>>>>>> the school tells you things because they do really know better what 
>>>>>> has worked and not worked for grads when they get home.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At TSE, EVERYTHING done has a purpose!  Even the simple things like 
>>>>>> going to the dining room for meals.  At lunch time, all the employees 
>>>>>> and guests have lunch with us during the week.  For us students, they 
>>>>>> have us come in after the staff and guests are already eating and 
>>>>>> they are seated near the door in the first section of the dining 
>>>>>> room.  We are required to work our dogs past these tables with people 
>>>>>> eating at them.  This arrangement sets up a situation that we will 
>>>>>> find when we go to restaurants.  Every day, we are practicing how to 
>>>>>> work the dogs in a restaurant type setting.  In lecture, our dogs are 
>>>>>> in harness and lying quietly at our feet.  This is like if wwe were 
>>>>>> at a meeting we would go to when we get home.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do think some schools are more thorouogh in some things than other 
>>>>>> schools.  I see that some other schools do not place a premium on 
>>>>>> getting dogs out of the way when we are sitting in a meeting where we 
>>>>>> sit at tables. Some of the dog users just let their dogs lie on the 
>>>>>> floor in the way where they get tripped over.  The Seeing Eye is a 
>>>>>> real stickler on this issue of making sure our dogs are out of the 
>>>>>> way - under chairs or the table where they will not be tripped over.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But many problems are from lax handling by new users AND long-time 
>>>>>> handlers because they don't think about what they are doing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship
>>>>>> is like asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chantel Cuddemi"
>>>>>> <jawsgirl87 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 11:59 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I'm back
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jenny,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am a Pilot grad, and I went through the achievement walk twice,
>>>>>>> and I had to stay for extra training.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, are you saying that all Pilot grads are idiots? Pilot's name
>>>>>>> is engraved on Motley's harness.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chantel and Motley.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Snow
>>>>>>> White Dove
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 2:20 PM
>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I'm back
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I got Shasta at Pilot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was and am astounded by their training of their dogs and their 
>>>>>>> students.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know they have a fowl reputation.  but when I was there, I saw 
>>>>>>> why.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There were a couple of women ther that never should've gotten
>>>>>>> their dogs because they didn't have to go through the full
>>>>>>> achievement walk to determine whether they are fit for a dog.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Basically what I'm trying to say, politely, but truthfully is,
>>>>>>> that the reputation of Pilot is marred only by the idiots they let
>>>>>>> go home with dogs they sshouldn't have giving to people.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For any questions on the details of this opinion.  Please email me
>>>>>>> off list so as to not clutter the list.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just have to say this.  Pilot is, in my opinion, being
>>>>>>> considered a less than desirable school ecause of the idiots that
>>>>>>> are seen because they're obviously not suited to have a dog and 
>>>>>>> Pilot's name is on that harness.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No one sees Pilot on the harnesses of those who handle their dogs
>>>>>>> well and just blend in.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, I'm done gushing over my experiences.  Please don't feel
>>>>>>> offended by anything I might have said.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If I've overstepped my bounds with the moderators.  Please know
>>>>>>> that apologize.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jenny
>>>>>>> On Aug 19, 2013, at 7:34 PM, Marsha Drenth <marsha.drenth at gmail.com> 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jenny,
>>>>>>>> congratulations!
>>>>>>>> What an interesting name..Where did you get Mr Shasta? I don't
>>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>> what school you apply to. Sorry.
>>>>>>>> May you both have many years of wonderful working relationship 
>>>>>>>> together.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Marsha drenth
>>>>>>>> Sent with my IPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Aug 19, 2013, at 7:02 PM, Snow White Dove <jlperdue3 at gmail.com> 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wanted to write to tell you all that I finally did it.  I know
>>>>>>> Cynprobably let you guys know already, but I figured I'd write 
>>>>>>> myself.
>>>>>>>>> I came home August 9th with an English Black lab named Shasta.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> He's a wonderful worker and has a great personality, but boy I
>>>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>>> sure of the personality part in the beginning or whether I could
>>>>>>> handle him at all.
>>>>>>>>> If he had not been on leash I think he'd have bounced off the
>>>>>>>>> walls all
>>>>>>> on his own steam.
>>>>>>>>> He settled down, and things are pretty cool now, but being 19
>>>>>>>>> months old,
>>>>>>> he's a chewer.  I've had him on leash since I got him, and
>>>>>>> everything was fine till I got home with my brand new leather
>>>>>>> leash which he chewed in half in a perfectly streight line in two 
>>>>>>> seconds flat.
>>>>>>>>> Needless to say, I was embarrassed to call the school to order a
>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>> leash, but more embarrassed when the head trainer answered the
>>>>>>> phone. He was cool about it, well for him, and said to give him a
>>>>>>> couple of weeks to get more leashes as theyn were out.
>>>>>>>>> I'm hoping they'll just give me a new one, but I don't think
>>>>>>>>> I'll be that
>>>>>>> lucky.
>>>>>>>>> Also, he appears to be a dog, but is a beaver.  He eats anything
>>>>>>>>> wooden
>>>>>>> outside, and I can't seem to break him of it.  I've said no, leash
>>>>>>> corrections, drop it and removed sticks and twigs from his mouth. 
>>>>>>> ug.
>>>>>>>>> Hope to hear from you guys soon.  I just did a mass delete
>>>>>>>>> before I wrote
>>>>>>> you all, so if you wrote me about Shasta, please forgive me and
>>>>>>> send it again.
>>>>>>>>> Have a great day.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jenny
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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