[nagdu] Family Upset After Dog Removed From Eatery

Sat Aug 24 20:03:58 UTC 2013

You got that right, Tami.  Even though i totally disagree about Dogs
being allowed in lallos.  Pets at that.

Debbie & Leone

On 8/24/13, Tami Jarvis <tami at poodlemutt.com> wrote:
> Debbie,
>
> One of the fun things about Portland is that so many places over there
> allow pets by permission, including a lot of the malls, Home Depot and a
> few others. It was handy for when I needed to do some added work on dog
> distractions to be sure my dog was up to snuff for places where pets are
> not allowed. The pets in these places where they are allowed behave
> really well without anyone having to pretend they are service dogs to
> bring them in. When I was re-working stuff with my honest-to-goodness
> service dog because of the after effects of a run in with another
> honest-to-goodness service dog, it was pretty embarrassing having all
> those pets around behaving better than she did. Still, for anyone in the
> Portland area needing to work on indoor dog distractions, there are
> plenty of places to just hang out and do that. /smile/
>
> I'm curious sometimes about a dog that may or may not be a service dog,
> more because I am interested in training and tasks. I generally stop
> myself from asking when I remember that the person is likely to shriek
> cusswords at me. /shudder/ I'll probably blurt something out one of
> these days, and we can share war stories abou that. /lol/
>
> If the behavior of the dog is out of line, I actually don't wonder about
> its status, either... The bad players I've run into over in the same
> stomping grounds are dogs I know to be legally defined service dogs.
> I've met some nasty pets but never in service-dog only places. Certain
> small dog breeds seem to have held a convention and declared Death To
> All Poodles, I can tell you that!
>
> Well, trust Portland to be weird, especially when it comes to dogs. /lol/
>
> Tami
>
> On 08/24/2013 12:08 PM, Debbie Cole wrote:
>> Last weekend while doing a 4 hour jaunt with Leone in our local mall
>> we ahppened across 2 chiuauas.  One on upper level the 2nd on lower
>> level.  Both distractions to Leone.  the first one pops it's tiny head
>> out of a Foot Locker store.  Leone herked and did a kissy kissy to the
>> little chiuaua.  An older teen female swooped doqn and picked up her
>> white mini mutt.  I said "Is that your service dog?"  "How does it
>> assist your disability?"  She yelled at me "I'm not F****** disabled!
>> Do I look like a retard?  It appeared her boyfriend worked in the
>> store.
>>
>> 2nd dog was jsut walking around on a leash.
>>
>> It is a habit around here for owners of the very small dogs to freely
>> take dogs in shops and stores.
>>
>> Debbie & Leone
>>
>> On 8/24/13, Jenine Stanley <jeninems at wowway.com> wrote:
>>> Marion,
>>>
>>> Maybe I'm splitting dog hairs here but the two questions are actually:
>>>
>>> Is that a service animal?
>>> How does it assist you with your disability?
>>>
>>> The second question assumes that A. the answer to the first question was
>>> Yes
>>> and B. that the person is disabled. The business cannot ask any
>>> questions
>>> about a person's disability, even if he or she is disabled. It's implied
>>> by
>>> the answer to the first question.
>>>
>>> The business also can't ask for training specifics, just what tasks does
>>> the
>>> animal do for you that assist.
>>>
>>> Providing emotional support isn't a task of course. I do hope the
>>> restaurant
>>> follows up with this one and gets a DOJ comment for the media.
>>>
>>> Jenine Stanley
>>> jeninems at wowway.com
>>> http://www.twitter.com/jeninems
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of National
>>> Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 1:10 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Family Upset After Dog Removed From Eatery
>>>
>>> 	There is a flaw in this article. It states that a business may only
>>> ask two questions. A place of public accommodation may inquire about
>>> what
>>> tasks the animal has been trained to perform and how it was trained, as
>>> well
>>> as if the person is disabled and if the dog is a service animal.
>>>
>>> Marion
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tami Jarvis
>>> Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 11:02 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Family Upset After Dog Removed From Eatery
>>>
>>> Hey! This one seemed really clear about the laws and the distinctions.
>>> Refreshing. It's good when the quote by the Designated Expert stresses
>>> the
>>> training, especially when it comes to the different between ESAs and
>>> their
>>> SD counterparts with task training. I was glad he mentioned that the
>>> highly
>>> trained service dogs can be removed for the listed misbehaviors.
>>>
>>> Tami
>>>
>>> On 08/24/2013 06:35 AM, Ginger Kutsch wrote:
>>>> Family Upset After Dog Removed From Eatery
>>>>
>>>> by Jeff Rusack,
>>>>
>>>> August 23, 2013 8:13 PM
>>>>
>>>> Source:
>>>> http://www.kdlt.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=29327&It
>>>> emid=5
>>>> 7
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> One Sioux Falls' family is crying foul after they say they were
>>>> discriminated against for having an emotional support dog at a fast
>>>> food restaurant, Thursday.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mocha may have brown fur but she seems to be in a grey area.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thursday afternoon when Alan Steele and his mother Edwina decided to
>>>> dine in at a Sioux Falls Taco Bell, they were told to do something
>>>> that surprised them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "We were asked if we were going to eat in. I said, 'yes, we are.' And
>>>> he goes, 'I'm sorry. I can't allow you to do that,'" said Alan Steele.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The Americans with Disabilities Act allows any service animal into
>>>> just about any business.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "On the back it says that she is a part of the American Disabled Act
>>>> of 1990," pointed out Steele.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mocha is titled as an emotional support dog. Mocha's owner, Edwina
>>>> Steele suffers from depression and anxiety and can't take
>>>> prescriptions due to a heart condition, as they tried to explain to
>>>> the
>>> Taco Bell staff.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "She is a service animal, emotional support. And he goes, 'that
>>>> doesn't matter,'" added Steele.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Just because a dog has a vest on doesn't mean the dog is protected,"
>>>> said Steve Slavik, the CEO of Big Paws Canine, a company that trains
>>>> dogs for Veterans dealing with post-traumatic stress disorder.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "What a service dog is and how it is defined, is a dog that is trained
>>>> to perform work or perform a task for an individual with a
>>>> disability," quoted Slavik from the American with Disabilities Act.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And the Steele's may be out of luck when trying to bring Mocha with
>>>> them to businesses with pet policies.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Dogs that wouldn't be protected are emotional support dogs and
>>>> companion dogs. They are still considered pets and they are not
>>>> defined in the protection of the ADA," added Slavik.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But, asking someone about their dog, when it comes to determining if
>>>> they are indeed a service animal, can be tricky.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Businesses are only allowed to ask two questions when it comes to
>>>> service dogs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is the service animal required? And what work has the dog been trained
>>>> to perform?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Businesses cannot ask what the owners disability is or for the owner
>>>> to provide documentation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "If the dog is barking or being destructive to merchandise or going to
>>>> the restroom on the floor, those types of things, even if it's a
>>>> full-fledged
>>>> 1,000 of hours training service dog, a service dog can be denied
>>>> access,"
>>>> added Slavik.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The Steeles say there was no indication of any misbehavior at the Taco
>>>> Bell, Thursday and they still hope for an apology from the restaurant.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "I would like for people to ask and understand before they criticize
>>>> or discriminate against her," added Steele.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There's no doubt Mocha is a lovable pup. But, service dog experts say
>>>> an emotional support dog has no protection when it comes to the
>>>> Americans with Disabilities Act.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>
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