[nagdu] Over here command

Toni Whaley blind_treasurer at verizon.net
Sun Aug 25 00:03:40 UTC 2013 

Hello!,

When I first went to GEB back in the 80's, they used the SE method. They
called it "pivotting through the dorr". (There was no command for it.) To
execute this maneuver: drop the harness while keeping the leash in your left
hand, open the dor with your right hand, rotate counter clockwise until your
back is against the dor, with the leash still in your left hand bring the
dog in front of you, and grab the harness as the dog goes by.  Later GEB
switch to the "side" command to bring the dog on your right side before you
open the door. GEB later switched back to the pivot method, because the dog
wasn't in a good position if there were stairs on the other side of that
door. When I came back from SE five years ago, I taught Hazel the "side"
command.My back door opens on the left side, but it was difficult holding
the screen dorr open with the dog on the left while trying to unlock the
door; so I taught her the "side" command. To do this, I put my right hand
behind my back and grab the leash. Then, as I say, "side," I guide her
behind me to my right side. This command is also useful when you have to go
through revolving dorrs or turnstyles which rotate counter clockwise . 

Toni
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha Dudley
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 11:39 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Over here command

Hey Deanna,
The seeing eye teaches you to do turn so that your back is against the door,
dropping the harness handle. Then you can call your dog through the door,
pick up the handle, and move on. I really like this technique. 
Aleeha and Dallas, who is rather sniffy today. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 23, 2013, at 11:21, Deanna Lewis <DLewis at clovernook.org> wrote:

> Hi Shanna,
> When you were talking about the doors and the command "over here" it got
me thinking. You said that the way you did it was like Seeing Eye does, but
what is their technique? What do other schools teach for having the dog move
to the right side so that you can open a door when the hinges are on the
left side? So that you can heal the dog through without them getting hit by
the door. I hope this makes sense /smiles/.
> I feel that I am pretty lenient with Pascal, since he is my first dog.
But, I want to be more strict with my successor dogs. Pascal has very good
behavior, but he is also a bit spoiled! And he's very stubborn!
> Deanna and Pascal
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shanna 
> Stichler
> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 1:40 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home (was I'm 
> back)
> 
> With my program dogs, I think I stuck to the school rules at first for
each one. Once I got to know the dog better, then I deviated from those
guidelines when I needed to. I have never used GDB's "over here" 
> command, which is when the dog switches sides in order to go through doors
opening toward the team. I found that it just wasn't practical for me, so I
came up with a method that sounds pretty similar to what TSE uses, actually.
:D I also did clicker work with my dogs, and this was before GDB was using
clicker training in their program. Oh, and I always, always switched their
food to something I liked better.
> 
> I think mostly, the schools have all these rules because they want to
cover every possible eventuality, if that makes sense. Mostly, they're sound
enough, but it's fine to come up with different methods that work better for
us when we get home. JMO though, of course.
> 
> Shanna and Diamond
> On 8/22/2013 3:26 PM, Shannon Dyer wrote:
>> This is really sound advice, Tracy. While in class, we are in a controled
environment. Therefore, the school rules can and do work for us. However,
once we get home, and our dogs have to function in the environment we're
used to, things can change.
>> 
>> Like you, I stopped doing the door thing pretty quickly after coming home
with each of my dogs. I've also never understood heeling the dog off a bus.
Too much of a chance of injury, IMO.
>> 
>> Shannon and Ace
>> On Aug 22, 2013, at 11:20 AM, "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
wrote:
>> 
>>> I usually change the rules when I get home, if I find the school rules
aren't working for me.  I say, give the school rules a fair try, because
they may have some real value, but chuck them if they don't work for me.
>>> One example is what I think of as the TSE pirouette, a maneuver for
opening a door and going through it with the dog.  I gave it a fair try at
the school, but shortly after I got home I went back to the way I'd been
doing things and totally forgot it.

>>> Another example is that, many years ago, GDB taught that I should heel
the dog off of a bus.  I did that, until I stepped into a hole, or smashed
into a pole right outside the door--I'm sure both these things
happened--then I decided it was a stupid thing to do and have worked the dog
off the bus ever since.
>>> IMO, while many of the rules I've been taught in class do have value,
some others seem to have been made up by people with no practical experience
in the world I live in, and I will use my good judgement to decide which are
which.
>>> Tracy
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheila Leigland" 
>>> <sleigland at bresnan.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:11 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I'm back
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> hi lyn well stated. I know a handler that goes out of the way to do
everything differently than the school trains to do. I do know that some
things work better for some dogs than others but the principles are still
the same.
>>>> On 8/21/2013 11:41 AM, L Gwizdak wrote:
>>>>> Hi Chantel,
>>>>> I don't think Jenny said that ALL Pilot grads were idiots. LOL! I've
seen my share of poor handlers since 1971!  they came from all schools.
Part of what I've seen is that grads will sometimes decide that the school
is full of crap when the school asks you to do things in a certain way when
you get home with a new dog.  the grad blows off the school and does things
as they please - not realizing that the school tells you things because they
do really know better what has worked and not worked for grads when they get
home.
>>>>> 
>>>>> At TSE, EVERYTHING done has a purpose!  Even the simple things like
going to the dining room for meals.  At lunch time, all the employees and
guests have lunch with us during the week.  For us students, they have us
come in after the staff and guests are already eating and they are seated
near the door in the first section of the dining room.  We are required to
work our dogs past these tables with people eating at them.  This
arrangement sets up a situation that we will find when we go to restaurants.
Every day, we are practicing how to work the dogs in a restaurant type
setting.  In lecture, our dogs are in harness and lying quietly at our feet.
This is like if wwe were at a meeting we would go to when we get home.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I do think some schools are more thorouogh in some things than other
schools.  I see that some other schools do not place a premium on getting
dogs out of the way when we are sitting in a meeting where we sit at tables.
Some of the dog users just let their dogs lie on the floor in the way where
they get tripped over.  The Seeing Eye is a real stickler on this issue of
making sure our dogs are out of the way - under chairs or the table where
they will not be tripped over.
>>>>> 
>>>>> But many problems are from lax handling by new users AND long-time
handlers because they don't think about what they are doing.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship 
>>>>> is like asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chantel Cuddemi" 
>>>>> <jawsgirl87 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 11:59 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I'm back
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Jenny,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I am a Pilot grad, and I went through the achievement walk twice, 
>>>>>> and I had to stay for extra training.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So, are you saying that all Pilot grads are idiots? Pilot's name 
>>>>>> is engraved on Motley's harness.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Chantel and Motley.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Snow 
>>>>>> White Dove
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 2:20 PM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>>> Users
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I'm back
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I got Shasta at Pilot.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I was and am astounded by their training of their dogs and their
students.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I know they have a fowl reputation.  but when I was there, I saw why.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> There were a couple of women ther that never should've gotten 
>>>>>> their dogs because they didn't have to go through the full 
>>>>>> achievement walk to determine whether they are fit for a dog.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Basically what I'm trying to say, politely, but truthfully is, 
>>>>>> that the reputation of Pilot is marred only by the idiots they 
>>>>>> let go home with dogs they sshouldn't have giving to people.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> For any questions on the details of this opinion.  Please email 
>>>>>> me off list so as to not clutter the list.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I just have to say this.  Pilot is, in my opinion, being 
>>>>>> considered a less than desirable school ecause of the idiots that 
>>>>>> are seen because they're obviously not suited to have a dog and
Pilot's name is on that harness.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> No one sees Pilot on the harnesses of those who handle their dogs 
>>>>>> well and just blend in.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Anyway, I'm done gushing over my experiences.  Please don't feel 
>>>>>> offended by anything I might have said.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If I've overstepped my bounds with the moderators.  Please know 
>>>>>> that apologize.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Jenny
>>>>>> On Aug 19, 2013, at 7:34 PM, Marsha Drenth <marsha.drenth at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Jenny,
>>>>>>> congratulations!
>>>>>>> What an interesting name..Where did you get Mr Shasta? I don't 
>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>> what school you apply to. Sorry.
>>>>>>> May you both have many years of wonderful working relationship
together.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Marsha drenth
>>>>>>> Sent with my IPhone
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Aug 19, 2013, at 7:02 PM, Snow White Dove <jlperdue3 at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Wanted to write to tell you all that I finally did it.  I know
>>>>>> Cynprobably let you guys know already, but I figured I'd write
myself.
>>>>>>>> I came home August 9th with an English Black lab named Shasta.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> He's a wonderful worker and has a great personality, but boy I 
>>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>> sure of the personality part in the beginning or whether I could 
>>>>>> handle him at all.
>>>>>>>> If he had not been on leash I think he'd have bounced off the 
>>>>>>>> walls all
>>>>>> on his own steam.
>>>>>>>> He settled down, and things are pretty cool now, but being 19 
>>>>>>>> months old,
>>>>>> he's a chewer.  I've had him on leash since I got him, and 
>>>>>> everything was fine till I got home with my brand new leather 
>>>>>> leash which he chewed in half in a perfectly streight line in two
seconds flat.
>>>>>>>> Needless to say, I was embarrassed to call the school to order 
>>>>>>>> a new
>>>>>> leash, but more embarrassed when the head trainer answered the 
>>>>>> phone. He was cool about it, well for him, and said to give him a 
>>>>>> couple of weeks to get more leashes as theyn were out.
>>>>>>>> I'm hoping they'll just give me a new one, but I don't think 
>>>>>>>> I'll be that
>>>>>> lucky.
>>>>>>>> Also, he appears to be a dog, but is a beaver.  He eats 
>>>>>>>> anything wooden
>>>>>> outside, and I can't seem to break him of it.  I've said no, 
>>>>>> leash corrections, drop it and removed sticks and twigs from his
mouth.  ug.
>>>>>>>> Hope to hear from you guys soon.  I just did a mass delete 
>>>>>>>> before I wrote
>>>>>> you all, so if you wrote me about Shasta, please forgive me and 
>>>>>> send it again.
>>>>>>>> Have a great day.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Jenny
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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