[nagdu] Over here command

Sun Aug 25 03:33:28 UTC 2013

When I was at GEB in 2011 they taught me both ways. I  don't always have enough time or space to pivot  so I use the side command. 
Bridget and Paulson 

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 24, 2013, at 10:57 PM, Ashley Coleman <amc05111 at gmail.com> wrote:

> When I was at GEB a few years ago; I was taught both ways, and I use the one I need at the time. Mostly it's the pivit though. I have not tried reaching over my dog to open the door. I am pretty short so that can possibly be a bit much sometimes.
> 
> Ashley and Landon,
> 
> 
> On 8/24/2013 8:03 PM, Toni Whaley wrote:
>> Hello!,
>> 
>> When I first went to GEB back in the 80's, they used the SE method. They
>> called it "pivotting through the dorr". (There was no command for it.) To
>> execute this maneuver: drop the harness while keeping the leash in your left
>> hand, open the dor with your right hand, rotate counter clockwise until your
>> back is against the dor, with the leash still in your left hand bring the
>> dog in front of you, and grab the harness as the dog goes by.  Later GEB
>> switch to the "side" command to bring the dog on your right side before you
>> open the door. GEB later switched back to the pivot method, because the dog
>> wasn't in a good position if there were stairs on the other side of that
>> door. When I came back from SE five years ago, I taught Hazel the "side"
>> command.My back door opens on the left side, but it was difficult holding
>> the screen dorr open with the dog on the left while trying to unlock the
>> door; so I taught her the "side" command. To do this, I put my right hand
>> behind my back and grab the leash. Then, as I say, "side," I guide her
>> behind me to my right side. This command is also useful when you have to go
>> through revolving dorrs or turnstyles which rotate counter clockwise .
>> 
>> Toni
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha Dudley
>> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 11:39 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Over here command
>> 
>> Hey Deanna,
>> The seeing eye teaches you to do turn so that your back is against the door,
>> dropping the harness handle. Then you can call your dog through the door,
>> pick up the handle, and move on. I really like this technique.
>> Aleeha and Dallas, who is rather sniffy today.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Aug 23, 2013, at 11:21, Deanna Lewis <DLewis at clovernook.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Shanna,
>>> When you were talking about the doors and the command "over here" it got
>> me thinking. You said that the way you did it was like Seeing Eye does, but
>> what is their technique? What do other schools teach for having the dog move
>> to the right side so that you can open a door when the hinges are on the
>> left side? So that you can heal the dog through without them getting hit by
>> the door. I hope this makes sense /smiles/.
>>> I feel that I am pretty lenient with Pascal, since he is my first dog.
>> But, I want to be more strict with my successor dogs. Pascal has very good
>> behavior, but he is also a bit spoiled! And he's very stubborn!
>>> Deanna and Pascal
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shanna
>>> Stichler
>>> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 1:40 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home (was I'm
>>> back)
>>> 
>>> With my program dogs, I think I stuck to the school rules at first for
>> each one. Once I got to know the dog better, then I deviated from those
>> guidelines when I needed to. I have never used GDB's "over here"
>>> command, which is when the dog switches sides in order to go through doors
>> opening toward the team. I found that it just wasn't practical for me, so I
>> came up with a method that sounds pretty similar to what TSE uses, actually.
>> :D I also did clicker work with my dogs, and this was before GDB was using
>> clicker training in their program. Oh, and I always, always switched their
>> food to something I liked better.
>>> I think mostly, the schools have all these rules because they want to
>> cover every possible eventuality, if that makes sense. Mostly, they're sound
>> enough, but it's fine to come up with different methods that work better for
>> us when we get home. JMO though, of course.
>>> Shanna and Diamond
>>> On 8/22/2013 3:26 PM, Shannon Dyer wrote:
>>>> This is really sound advice, Tracy. While in class, we are in a controled
>> environment. Therefore, the school rules can and do work for us. However,
>> once we get home, and our dogs have to function in the environment we're
>> used to, things can change.
>>>> Like you, I stopped doing the door thing pretty quickly after coming home
>> with each of my dogs. I've also never understood heeling the dog off a bus.
>> Too much of a chance of injury, IMO.
>>>> Shannon and Ace
>>>> On Aug 22, 2013, at 11:20 AM, "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>> wrote:
>>>>> I usually change the rules when I get home, if I find the school rules
>> aren't working for me.  I say, give the school rules a fair try, because
>> they may have some real value, but chuck them if they don't work for me.
>>>>> One example is what I think of as the TSE pirouette, a maneuver for
>> opening a door and going through it with the dog.  I gave it a fair try at
>> the school, but shortly after I got home I went back to the way I'd been
>> doing things and totally forgot it.
>> 
>>>>> Another example is that, many years ago, GDB taught that I should heel
>> the dog off of a bus.  I did that, until I stepped into a hole, or smashed
>> into a pole right outside the door--I'm sure both these things
>> happened--then I decided it was a stupid thing to do and have worked the dog
>> off the bus ever since.
>>>>> IMO, while many of the rules I've been taught in class do have value,
>> some others seem to have been made up by people with no practical experience
>> in the world I live in, and I will use my good judgement to decide which are
>> which.
>>>>> Tracy
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheila Leigland"
>>>>> <sleigland at bresnan.net>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:11 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I'm back
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> hi lyn well stated. I know a handler that goes out of the way to do
>> everything differently than the school trains to do. I do know that some
>> things work better for some dogs than others but the principles are still
>> the same.
>>>>>> On 8/21/2013 11:41 AM, L Gwizdak wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Chantel,
>>>>>>> I don't think Jenny said that ALL Pilot grads were idiots. LOL! I've
>> seen my share of poor handlers since 1971!  they came from all schools.
>> Part of what I've seen is that grads will sometimes decide that the school
>> is full of crap when the school asks you to do things in a certain way when
>> you get home with a new dog.  the grad blows off the school and does things
>> as they please - not realizing that the school tells you things because they
>> do really know better what has worked and not worked for grads when they get
>> home.
>>>>>>> At TSE, EVERYTHING done has a purpose!  Even the simple things like
>> going to the dining room for meals.  At lunch time, all the employees and
>> guests have lunch with us during the week.  For us students, they have us
>> come in after the staff and guests are already eating and they are seated
>> near the door in the first section of the dining room.  We are required to
>> work our dogs past these tables with people eating at them.  This
>> arrangement sets up a situation that we will find when we go to restaurants.
>> Every day, we are practicing how to work the dogs in a restaurant type
>> setting.  In lecture, our dogs are in harness and lying quietly at our feet.
>> This is like if wwe were at a meeting we would go to when we get home.
>>>>>>> I do think some schools are more thorouogh in some things than other
>> schools.  I see that some other schools do not place a premium on getting
>> dogs out of the way when we are sitting in a meeting where we sit at tables.
>> Some of the dog users just let their dogs lie on the floor in the way where
>> they get tripped over.  The Seeing Eye is a real stickler on this issue of
>> making sure our dogs are out of the way - under chairs or the table where
>> they will not be tripped over.
>>>>>>> But many problems are from lax handling by new users AND long-time
>> handlers because they don't think about what they are doing.
>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship
>>>>>>> is like asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chantel Cuddemi"
>>>>>>> <jawsgirl87 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 11:59 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I'm back
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Jenny,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I am a Pilot grad, and I went through the achievement walk twice,
>>>>>>>> and I had to stay for extra training.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> So, are you saying that all Pilot grads are idiots? Pilot's name
>>>>>>>> is engraved on Motley's harness.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Chantel and Motley.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Snow
>>>>>>>> White Dove
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 2:20 PM
>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>> Users
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I'm back
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I got Shasta at Pilot.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I was and am astounded by their training of their dogs and their
>> students.
>>>>>>>> I know they have a fowl reputation.  but when I was there, I saw why.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> There were a couple of women ther that never should've gotten
>>>>>>>> their dogs because they didn't have to go through the full
>>>>>>>> achievement walk to determine whether they are fit for a dog.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Basically what I'm trying to say, politely, but truthfully is,
>>>>>>>> that the reputation of Pilot is marred only by the idiots they
>>>>>>>> let go home with dogs they sshouldn't have giving to people.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> For any questions on the details of this opinion.  Please email
>>>>>>>> me off list so as to not clutter the list.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I just have to say this.  Pilot is, in my opinion, being
>>>>>>>> considered a less than desirable school ecause of the idiots that
>>>>>>>> are seen because they're obviously not suited to have a dog and
>> Pilot's name is on that harness.
>>>>>>>> No one sees Pilot on the harnesses of those who handle their dogs
>>>>>>>> well and just blend in.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Anyway, I'm done gushing over my experiences.  Please don't feel
>>>>>>>> offended by anything I might have said.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> If I've overstepped my bounds with the moderators.  Please know
>>>>>>>> that apologize.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Jenny
>>>>>>>> On Aug 19, 2013, at 7:34 PM, Marsha Drenth <marsha.drenth at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Jenny,
>>>>>>>>> congratulations!
>>>>>>>>> What an interesting name..Where did you get Mr Shasta? I don't
>>>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>>> what school you apply to. Sorry.
>>>>>>>>> May you both have many years of wonderful working relationship
>> together.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Marsha drenth
>>>>>>>>> Sent with my IPhone
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Aug 19, 2013, at 7:02 PM, Snow White Dove <jlperdue3 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Wanted to write to tell you all that I finally did it.  I know
>>>>>>>> Cynprobably let you guys know already, but I figured I'd write
>> myself.
>>>>>>>>>> I came home August 9th with an English Black lab named Shasta.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> He's a wonderful worker and has a great personality, but boy I
>>>>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>>>> sure of the personality part in the beginning or whether I could
>>>>>>>> handle him at all.
>>>>>>>>>> If he had not been on leash I think he'd have bounced off the
>>>>>>>>>> walls all
>>>>>>>> on his own steam.
>>>>>>>>>> He settled down, and things are pretty cool now, but being 19
>>>>>>>>>> months old,
>>>>>>>> he's a chewer.  I've had him on leash since I got him, and
>>>>>>>> everything was fine till I got home with my brand new leather
>>>>>>>> leash which he chewed in half in a perfectly streight line in two
>> seconds flat.
>>>>>>>>>> Needless to say, I was embarrassed to call the school to order
>>>>>>>>>> a new
>>>>>>>> leash, but more embarrassed when the head trainer answered the
>>>>>>>> phone. He was cool about it, well for him, and said to give him a
>>>>>>>> couple of weeks to get more leashes as theyn were out.
>>>>>>>>>> I'm hoping they'll just give me a new one, but I don't think
>>>>>>>>>> I'll be that
>>>>>>>> lucky.
>>>>>>>>>> Also, he appears to be a dog, but is a beaver.  He eats
>>>>>>>>>> anything wooden
>>>>>>>> outside, and I can't seem to break him of it.  I've said no,
>>>>>>>> leash corrections, drop it and removed sticks and twigs from his
>> mouth.  ug.
>>>>>>>>>> Hope to hear from you guys soon.  I just did a mass delete
>>>>>>>>>> before I wrote
>>>>>>>> you all, so if you wrote me about Shasta, please forgive me and
>>>>>>>> send it again.
>>>>>>>>>> Have a great day.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Jenny
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>>>>>>>> 
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