[nagdu] Teacher's allergy disrupts plans for autistic girl, service dog - The Athens Messenger: News

[Ann Edie]

I agree.  Note, for example, that the article states that this is a "new"
dog.  Although the article says that the parents have been working for the
past 2 years to get a dog for their child, the actual placement might have
come without much lead time, and the parents might have already completed
the Annual review meeting and the IEP process and may, therefore, not have
contacted the school to tell them about the new dog.  I don't know about
that school district, but where I work, it is very difficult to get a hold
of anyone in the summer time to talk about schedules and other arrangements
for the fall.  So, yes, there is a lot about the situation that we do not
know.

Ann

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael Hingson
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 3:55 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Teacher's allergy disrupts plans for autistic girl,
service dog - The Athens Messenger: News

Right.  I agree that things are muddled with a child, a dog controlled by
another individual, and the definition and rights granted under the ADA.  We
would really need to get someone from CCI or someone with more expertise on
this subject to address the finer points.  My only point was that there may
be a legitimately trained dog operating under appropriate parameters in this
case.

Also, I think that many here have made assumptions about what is going on.
We do not have all the facts.  We do not know what the teacher and the
administration knew in advance.  Too many questions. 


Best,


Michael Hingson
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ann Edie
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 03:15 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Teacher's allergy disrupts plans for autistic girl,
service dog - The Athens Messenger: News

Hi, Michael,

The dog may be a service dog under the definition in the ADA--it may have
been individually task trained (or may not have been), and it may or may not
be performing tasks to mitigate the child's disability.  But if the dog is
not handled by the child, but by another person, then is the dog "under the
control" of the person with the disability?

Since it is the disabled person who has rights under the ADA, things seem a
bit fuzzy here to me at least.

Anyway, a child does not have the same civil rights as an adult; parents,
schools, and other authorities have responsibility and authority over
children.

Many years ago now, (but within the years since the ADA was passed), I
worked in a school where there was a child with disabilities who loved the
family dog.  This boy's brother evidently went off to college or out on his
own and took the family dog with him.  Since the boy missed the dog, the
parents got the idea that the boy would benefit from having a "service dog."
The reason they gave was to make the boy more approachable to people he met
and to facilitate social interactions.  They also pushed to have the
student's therapists integrate the dog into the child's therapies and to
write it into his IEP, such as to encourage the boy to give commands to the
dog as part of his Speech therapy or to have the boy feed the dog as part of
his OT sessions.  The child's 1:1 aide had to be trained to handle the dog
during the time it was at school, to take it out to relieve, etc.  As it
turned out, the boy was not really that interested in this dog and never
paid much attention to it.  Eventually, I believe, the dog stayed most of
the time with the mother who said it was a service dog for her MS.  The
school permitted the dog in the school under duress, but I wouldn't say the
experiment was a rousing success.  I think that dog was trained by CCI, but
mostly it was just given basic house manners, nothing really "service"
oriented.  This all happened at a time when I was a teacher in the same
building, and I had no trouble accessing the building with my guide dog.  So
it wasn't that the school district didn't know that they had to permit
disabled persons to access their programs accompanied by their service
animals.  They just weren't convinced that a) the child could "handle" the
dog (in this case he couldn't,) and b) that the presence of the dog was
educationally relevant/appropriate.

I'm not saying that this is not a legitimate service dog.  I'm just saying
that things are a bit more complicated when we're talking about a child in a
school situation than it is in the ordinary access case.



Best,
Ann

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael Hingson
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 2:39 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Teacher's allergy disrupts plans for autistic girl,
service dog - The Athens Messenger: News

Given that the child is autistic in fact the dog may well have been trained
by an organization like CCI.  Many times the dog does act as a calming
factor while the dog is actually commanded by someone else like the mother.
This is not an unusual situation, but the dog is, by any definition, a
service animal.  I have been to CCI and heard lectures on how animals are
trained to work with autistic children.


Best,


Michael Hingson

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ann Edie
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 02:33 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Teacher's allergy disrupts plans for autistic girl,
service dog - The Athens Messenger: News

Other interesting aspects of this case:

The mother plans to attend school daily with her daughter.--This indicates
to me, as does the age of the child, that the partnership between the girl
and the dog is not that of a person with a disability working independently
with a service animal.  It seems more that the parent handles the dog and
the presence of the dog has a calming effect on the child or something like
that.  The dog may or may not be trained to perform specific tasks to
mitigate the child's disability.  It might be more of a "social dog" as I
have heard them referred to, something to encourage interaction with peers
and others in the environment.  Or it may be that the dog does specific
things to help the child regain control when she is feeling overwhelmed or
upset, or keeps her on route when she is going somewhere.  But I doubt that
this young a child is being allowed to go anywhere alone.  If the mother
weren't there to handle the dog, the district would probably have to hire a
1:1 aide to handle the dog, and that person would have to be trained in how
to manage the dog.  This is an expense that most districts could not justify
educationally, I believe.

In my experience the school may have more of an issue with the mother
wanting to attend school with her child than with the dog.  Today's
confidentiality regulations make it very hard to have parents as well as
other members of the public in classrooms where they would have access to
protected information about other children.  Nowadays everyone in the school
building, including volunteers, must be fingerprinted and background
checked, and they wouldn't be allowed there on a regular basis unless they
were employees of the district, only on specific parent visiting days or
other special events, at least in the schools I have worked with.

As I said, this is a very interesting case, and we'll see how it shakes out.

Ann

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ann Edie
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 1:51 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Teacher's allergy disrupts plans for autistic girl,
service dog - The Athens Messenger: News

Perhaps the family never let the school know that the girl would be
accompanied by the dog, just presuming that the school would have to accept
the dog under the provisions of the ADA, although the law as it applies to
students attending public schools is not completely straightforward, as far
as I know.  It's different for a student (child) than it would be, for
example, for a teacher with a disability who uses a service animal or even a
parent visitor to the building who uses a service animal.  It will be
interesting to follow this case and see how it progresses.

Ann

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of minh ha
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 9:43 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Teacher's allergy disrupts plans for autistic girl,
service dog - The Athens Messenger: News

I agree with Julie. Something smells super fishy. ... Didn't the article say
that the teacher wasn't even there on the first day and that somebody else
told the family that she was allergic to dogs?

Minh

On 8/26/13, Julie J. <julielj at neb.rr.com> wrote:
> The thing I'm confused about is how the teacher didn't know the girl 
> was going to be accompanied by her service dog.  I'm convinced there 
> had to be IEP meetings.  I'm pretty sure the classroom teacher attends 
> these.  I'm also pretty sure that the topic of the dog would have come 
> up.  Couldn't the
>
> teacher have mentioned the allergy so arrangements could have been 
> worked out in advance?  Waiting until the first day of school to 
> figure this out seems like a plan for failure.
>
> Or maybe that was the plan all along?
>
> Julie
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marsha Drenth
> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 11:28 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Teacher's allergy disrupts plans for autistic 
> girl,service dog - The Athens Messenger: News
>
> I'd like for one of the legal minds to comment on this. Whose rights 
> have to
>
> be  observed here? personally my opinion is that the teacher, needs 
> then to
>
> move schools, not eh child. Again that is my opinion. I am curious...
>
> Marsha drenth
> Sent with my IPhone
>
> On Aug 25, 2013, at 8:54 AM, "Ginger Kutsch" <GingerKutsch at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Teacher's allergy disrupts plans for autistic girl, service dog - The 
>> Athens
>> Messenger: News
>>
>> Athens Messenger
>>
>> Source:
>>
>> http://www.athensohiotoday.com/news/teacher-s-allergy-disrupts-plans-
>> for-aut
>> istic-girl-service-dog/article_5b4859e2-a4b1-568a-adb8-acc649e08556.h
>> tml
>>
>>
>>
>> Shyanna Gretz, 6, of The Plains, is seen with her new service dog 
>> Spring last month. After attending her first day of school at 
>> Morrison-Gordon Elementary
>>
>> on Monday, the school informed Shyanna's family that their autistic 
>> daughter and service dog would have to transfer schools as Morrison's
>> K-3 special education
>>
>> teacher is severely allergic to dog dander.
>>
>>
>>
>> By Sara Brumfield Messenger staff journalist
>>
>> As Shyanna Gretz, an autistic 6-year-old from The Plains, and her new 
>> service dog Spring attended their first day of first grade at 
>> Morrison-Gordon Elementary
>>
>> on Monday, her family was hoping for a smooth transition into Athens 
>> City Schools. But a special education teacher's severe allergy to dog 
>> dander has caused
>>
>> a hiccup in the family's schooling plan.
>>
>>
>>
>> The Messenger has written several stories about the Gretz family and 
>> their journey to get a service dog for Shyanna, who has had a history 
>> of extreme mood
>>
>> fluctuations and wandering off. After two years of fundraising and 
>> waiting, the family welcomed a 1-year-old black Labrador retriever, 
>> Spring, into their
>>
>> lives last month.
>>
>>
>>
>> Since Spring's arrival, Shyanna's mother Charla told The Messenger 
>> that her daughter's moods have been more in line with her peers and 
>> that family outings
>>
>> that were once impossible are now achievable.
>>
>>
>>
>> Shyanna attended kindergarten at Beacon School on West Union Street 
>> last year. Beacon, operated by the Athens County Board of 
>> Developmental Disabilities,
>>
>> is a school designed to serve students with special needs in all five 
>> of the county's public school districts.
>>
>>
>>
>> According to Charla, it was determined that Shyanna should be 
>> integrated into the Athens City School District this year and the 
>> family made plans for Shyanna
>>
>> to attend Morrison-Gordon Elementary, which is located next to Beacon 
>> School.
>>
>>
>>
>> However, at the end of the day on Monday, Charla (who plans to attend 
>> school with Shyanna on a daily basis) was told that her daughter 
>> would have to transfer
>>
>> to a different elementary school because the K-3 Individualized 
>> Education Plan teacher at Morrison is severely allergic to dog dander.
>>
>>
>>
>> Athens City Schools Supt. Carl Martin told The Messenger on Friday 
>> that only two of the district's four elementary schools have programs 
>> for autistic students
>>
>> - Morrison-Gordon and East Elementary. He said that Morrison has two 
>> teachers for the program - one who serves grades K-3 and another 
>> serving grades 4-6
>>
>> - and East has one teacher. The district's middle and high schools 
>> also have such programs.
>>
>>
>>
>> He said it's not uncommon for special needs students to begin their 
>> education at Beacon School and then move into the public school system.
>>
>>
>>
>> "We have a fair amount of autistic kids in the district," Martin said.
>>
>>
>>
>> While switching elementary schools may seem like a simple enough 
>> solution, Charla said her daughter doesn't cope well with change or 
>> riding the school
>>
>> bus. She told The Messenger that the bus ride to East Elementary 
>> would be longer and that the change in surroundings could be a 
>> setback for Shyanna.
>>
>>
>>
>> Martin emphasized that East Elementary is only five miles from the 
>> Gretz's home in The Plains and the bus ride wouldn't be much 
>> different than it is
>>
>> to
>>
>> Morrison-Gordon.
>>
>>
>>
>> According to Martin, he was unaware that the Morrison-Gordon K-3 
>> special education teacher was allergic to dogs until Monday 
>> afternoon. Charla said the
>>
>> teacher was out sick on Monday, but the school told her that Shyanna 
>> and Spring could not return to Morrison because of the teacher's allergy.
>>
>>
>>
>> When asked if returning to Beacon would be an option for Shyanna, 
>> Martin said that would have to be worked out between the family and 
>> Beacon School.
>> He
>>
>> said that it's not uncommon for students to return to Beacon after 
>> they've tried public schools.
>>
>>
>>
>> The Gretz' youngest child, Conner, attends pre-school at Beacon. 
>> Charla said her son has attention deficit hyperactivity disorder
>> (ADHD) and oppositional
>>
>> defiant disorder (ODD).
>>
>>
>>
>> Charla said she will meet with members of the Athens City School 
>> District
>>
>> on
>> Sept. 3 regarding their options for Shyanna's schooling. Martin said 
>> the district
>>
>> had hoped to meet with the family sooner, but the family's schedule 
>> didn't allow for that.
>>
>>
>>
>> "The dog is not the issue," Martin said. "The issue is where can I 
>> serve this child in a program that works for everyone. East is a 
>> wonderful school in
>>
>> a wonderful building."
>>
>> sbrumfield at athensmessenger.com
>>
>> ; Twitter @SaraBmessenger.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
 >> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gm
>> ail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40neb.rr.co
> m
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3211/6110 - Release Date: 
> 08/26/13
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.
> com
>


--
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their
dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence

_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/annedie%40nycap.rr.com


_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/annedie%40nycap.rr.com


_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/info%40michaelhingson.com


_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/annedie%40nycap.rr.com


_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/info%40michaelhingson.com


_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/annedie%40nycap.rr.com