[nagdu] Petting WAS Re: Oxford restaurant refuses veteran's service dog

Tami Jarvis tami at poodlemutt.com
Wed Aug 28 22:10:09 UTC 2013


Great discussion. The only thing I noted that is different is that the 
restaurant owner stated his reason for refusal was because he did not 
believe it was a service dog. Which it turned out to be. The other 
points about how a refusal based on behavior -- assuming the claims by 
the business are the true ones -- show how a little knowledge but not 
enough can get a business a lot of bad press. If he's making it up about 
the contested points on the behavior, then he deserves it. At this 
point, probably no one will ever know.

I did find the comments from one of the experts about petting to be 
interesting. The gist was that some folks do allow their service dogs to 
be petted, while others do not. So I do tend to think that isn't 
something to use in trying to figure out if it really is a service dog.

I tend to agree that the ideal is no petting or tons of attention 
because it is disruptive. Having a nonstandard breed that gets a lot of 
attention, though, I have never figured out a way to achieve that ideal. 
One of the major reasons I'm so strongly considering switching breeds. 
It's a little less crazy for us over here, and people are much better 
about staying hands off. Whew! Even when they do ask to greet the 
poodle, they wait for my answer. Generally, that is in situations where 
a greeting won't cause disruption, so then it's a pleasant interchange 
and everyone moves on. Over in dog-friendly Portland, mass muggings 
could get out of hand. I actually found that giving permission in a 
controlled greet seemed to give me the best tools to manage and to keep 
the stress from affecting Mitzi too much. Very weird. Whatever I do, 
though, the disruption happens sometimes even when the black dog is 
apparently well-hidden under the table. Moral dilemma, I guess. Or I 
live in a weird place?

I've been pondering that, among other things, in trying to write up 
something useful about etiquette and how business owners might be able 
to make a good judgment about removing a service dog. So proper 
etiquette is not having everybody in a 5-block radius fussing over the 
dog. But the handler can't control the public and fighting with 
everybody who tries to pet the dog can stress the dog out and... Well, 
I'll be coming back to the list on that one when I figure out an 
intelligent question to ask. /smile/

Tami

On 08/28/2013 10:41 AM, Ann Edie wrote:
> Hi, Julie,
>
> The only missing piece in your argument is that, on the previous occasions
> when the team were in the restaurant and the disruptive behavior occurred,
> the business owner did not make the handler aware that his dog was behaving
> in a manner that disrupted the services provided by the restaurant and give
> him the opportunity of correcting the problem and bringing the dog back
> under control.  He said nothing when the disruption was occurring, but then
> refused to allow the person in with the dog on a subsequent occasion.  Now
> it seems as though one wouldn't need to tell a person that it is not
> appropriate to allow your service dog to be patted, seek attention, or eat
> off restaurant dishes, (and whether or not any of these things actually
> happened, we still don't really know), but the law and regulations still do
> say that the person should be given the chance to bring the animal back
> under control before being asked to remove the animal from the facility.  So
> it probably did come as a shock to the handler, and it probably did seem as
> if he was being denied access on the basis of his disability and his use of
> a service animal, when he was denied entry to the restaurant in terms that
> were admittedly less than polite and respectful.  And I'm still not sure
> from the story whether this handler is aware that a certain level/type of
> decorum is required of service animals when in places of public
> accommodation.
>
> Best,
> Ann
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 8:27 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Oxford restaurant refuses veteran's service dog
>
> Okay, let me make sure I've got this straight.
> The restaurant has had many service dogs in its establishment.  those dogs
> laid under the table, were quiet and unobtrusive. There was not an issue
> with acceptance or access to the restaurant.
> The man in question had brought his service dog into the restaurant on
> several prior occasions with no access issues.
> However the restaurant owner asked the man to not bring the dog in, after
> noticing a foul smell, the dog eating off the restaurant dishes, socializing
> with other customers and generally not behaving in a manner consistent with
> what is expected of a service dog.
>
> Is that about right?  Because if I'm getting this straight, I think the
> restaurant owner was correct in his refusal of the dog.  Certainly the breed
> of the dog and the lack of understanding of various disabilities played a
> part, but it seems that the behavior was the determining factor for the
> denial, since the man had eaten there numerous times before with the dog.
>
> To me, this isn't a lack of respect of veteran's issue.  It isn't a let's
> trample on the rights of the disabled or even a lack of knowledge issue.
> The behavior of the dog or the handling of the dog was not appropriate to
> the situation.   It looks to me like the man was refused access with his dog
>
> because of the behavior of the dog.  That's legal.
>
> Julie
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ginger Kutsch
> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 10:05 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: [nagdu] Oxford restaurant refuses veteran's service dog
>
> Oxford restaurant refuses veteran's service dog
>
> By Kim Ring, TELEGRAM & GAZETTE STAFF
>
> Source: http://www.telegram.com/article/20130827/NEWS/308279884/0/NEWS03
>
>
>
> OXFORD -  When Russell Ireland tossed a retired Air Force veteran and his
> Jack Russell terrier service dog out of his Big I's restaurant on Saturday,
> he had no idea of the trouble he'd unleashed.
>
> But by Monday night, Mr. Ireland was hoarse from answering telephone calls,
> many of which included threats from people who promised to burn down his
> Main Street restaurant, kill him or run him out of town.
>
> A Facebook page calling for a boycott of his breakfast and lunch diner-style
> restaurant had more than 7,000 subscribers within 10 hours. Folks posting
> there plan a peaceful demonstration, with service dogs and motorcycles, on
> Saturday morning.
>
> The whole ordeal has left Mr. Ireland moving between emotions, defending his
> decision and breaking down over the strong reactions people have had.
>
> Mr. Ireland said James Glaser and his small dog had been into the Main
> Street restaurant before and he'd been told the dog was a service dog, but
> he found it hard to believe.
>
> "It didn't look like a therapy dog," Mr. Ireland said. "It just looked like
> a regular mutt."
>
> The dog also didn't act like the handful of other service dogs who have
> accompanied vision-impaired or otherwise handicapped people into the eatery,
> Mr. Glaser said.
>
> "Most of those dogs? They just lay down on the floor and you don't even know
> they're there," he said.
>
> He said that during a prior visit he noticed a bad smell from the dog and
> saw it eating from one of the restaurant's plates - things Mr. Glaser said
> are untrue.
>
> On Saturday, when his staff told him Mr. Glaser, his wife and the dog were
> headed in, Mr. Ireland met them at the door and said the dog wasn't allowed
> inside.
>
> Mr. Glaser left the restaurant after what both sides agree was a heated
> exchange that may have involved a few expletives from Mr. Ireland and
> clearly shouldn't have gone as far as it did.
>
> "I'm not known for being PC," Mr. Ireland said. "I may have sworn at him ...
> I made a judgment call about this. I don't think I was wrong."
>
> His friends who gathered daily at the restaurant said Mr. Ireland is
> respectful of veterans and they were stunned by what happened.
>
> "I'm upset," Hank LaMountain said. He owns the property on which the
> restaurant sits. "Veterans are revered by society, including at Big I's."
>
> Mr. Glaser, a 41-year-old Air Force veteran who attained the rank of master
> sergeant, said he was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder in
> November 2011 by doctors at a Veterans Administration hospital, the same
> month he retired after a 20-year-career.
>
> He said he was angry about having to leave the restaurant because Mr.
> Ireland did not understand that his dog provides a calming influence when he
> begins having anxiety and needs to be near his side. It's not that Mr.
> Glaser hugs the dog because he's feeling stressed, it's that the dog can
> predict potential stress-related reactions from his master and will behave
> in a way that helps redirect him before things get out of hand.
>
> "The dog will lean on a person or put their paw on him," explained Bart
> Sherwood, program director for the Texas-based program Train a Dog Save a
> Warrior.
>
> Jack, Mr. Glaser's dog, completed training through the program and was
> certified Aug. 9, Mr. Sherwood said.
>
> But even before being certified, Mr. Glaser said, Jack has helped him since
> he was rescued from a Florida shelter in December, before Mr. Glaser knew
> what a service dog could do for someone with PTSD or similar issues.
>
> "I didn't know what he was doing," Mr. Glaser said. "I met another vet who
> had a service dog and he was explaining it to me and I said, 'That's what
> Jack's doing.' "
>
> That veteran explained the process of training or obtaining a service dog,
> and Mr. Glaser contacted Mr. Sherwood. The organization set up training
> sessions in Massachusetts for Mr. Glaser, who is from Nevada, and Jack
> because they were spending the summer in a motor home here while Mr.
> Glaser's wife worked.
>
> Mr. Sherwood said veterans often have their own dogs trained if that's
> deemed the best route.
>
> "They already have a bond," he said.
>
>
>
> Other times staff members at Train a Dog Save a Warrior choose a shelter dog
> so they can save two lives, Mr. Sherwood explained.
>
> That Jack and many other PTSD service dogs don't look like the Labrador
> retrievers or German shepherds that typically serve in such roles may be
> part of the reason that people fail to see how they could be providing any
> services.
>
> "That's not what people are used to seeing," Mr. Sherwood said, adding that
> the calls he's taken about Mr. Glaser's dog are pretty typical and come in
> fairly frequently.
>
> "There needs to be more and better education about this," he said.
>
>
>
> Mr. Glaser noted that the federal Americans with Disabilities Act mentions
> PTSD in the section about service dogs and the conditions they treat. He
> said he is working to increase awareness of service dogs that may be working
> with veterans whose war wounds aren't visible. He'd also like to see the VA
> help with funding the training or the acquisition of dogs for those in need.
>
> In the end, he said, he doesn't want to go back to Big I's and he doesn't
> want anyone else to eat there either.
>
> "I made it very clear (when I left the restaurant) that I was going to do
> everything I could to stop America from going in there and spending one red
> cent," Mr. Glaser said.
>
> Apology served at diner that refused service dog
>
> LESSON LEARNED ABOUT PTSD
>
> By Kim Ring, TELEGRAM & GAZETTE STAFF
>
>
>
> OXFORD - Big I's restaurant owner Russell Ireland says he has learned his
> lesson.
>
> And since James Glaser, an Air Force veteran, thought the owner of Big I's
> restaurant on Main Street needed a little education about post-traumatic
> stress disorder and the use of service dogs to treat it, everyone involved
> should satisfied.
>
> But they're not.
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, Mr. Ireland apologized on the radio during WAAF's "Hillman
> Morning Show" after some of the hosts questioned him about tossing Mr.
> Glaser and Jack, his service dog, out of the restaurant on Saturday. He
> apologized again in a telephone interview. He has said he just didn't
> believe that the small dog could possibly be a service animal.
>
> Mr. Ireland said Tuesday he's not contrite because of threats on social
> media or harassing calls to his business but because he has new
> understanding of Mr. Glaser's situation since a few veterans have come in or
> called and kindly explained to him some things he didn't know.
>
> "I learned a lot about PTSD since this happened and I'm still learning even
> more," he said. "I understand the whole PTSD thing and the dogs a lot better
> that I did prior to this."
>
> Joshua Fisher, an employee at Big I's, said he also thought the dog wasn't a
> service dog based on things he saw during previous visits.
>
> "We have other customers who won't let us touch the service dogs because it
> takes them off the job," Mr. Fisher said. "I ask if I can give the dog a
> sausage and they tell me, 'Absolutely not.' But he was letting people pet
> this dog; it was acting like a family dog. We didn't know. We'd never seen
> this."
>
> Mr. Ireland said he's since learned that some service dogs can be petted and
> that PTSD dogs and some seizure-detecting animals can be petted and still
> perform their duties.
>
> "I did not know that before," Mr. Ireland said. "But what I've learned is
> that it's up to the discretion of the owner."
>
> Whether the dog ate off a restaurant plate, smelled bad or wasn't properly
> leashed remains in dispute. Things Mr. Fisher said are more "he said, he
> said," and won't likely be resolved.
>
> And Mr. Ireland is still concerned about what he felt was a threat that Mr.
> Glaser made regarding bringing in agencies that might fine him. He said he
> wouldn't be comfortable with Mr. Glaser dining at the restaurant.
>
> Mr. Glaser said Tuesday afternoon that he hadn't heard an apology and has
> had no contact with Mr. Ireland. But if the diner owner learned something
> from the experience, he said he is glad.
>
> Still, he and about 600 others plan to rally at Big I's Saturday morning for
> a peaceful event to call attention to the use of service dogs by those
> suffering from PTSD. A Facebook page calling for a boycott of the restaurant
> had more than 26,600 followers by Tuesday evening, and many were visiting
> other websites to offer bad reviews of the diner.
>
> Mr. Glaser said on his Facebook page he doesn't want to put Big I's out of
> business and stressed that those showing support for him should behave
> respectfully because he's taking a path of educating business owners so
> others won't undergo similar experiences. He said his own PTSD is triggered
> by different things but he becomes most anxious when he sees people in
> traditional Muslim dress because of his experiences in Iraq.
>
> "For some people it's helicopters or crowds," he said. "It's whatever causes
> the PTSD in the first place."
>
> Those who have PTSD often get physical symptoms such as profuse sweating,
> upset stomachs and headaches when a trigger sends them to "that dark place,"
> Mr. Glaser explained.
>
> "I use to get mad, yell, break things," he said. Now Jack senses by smelling
> chemicals released by the stressed body before an attack and he takes action
> to distract his owner.
>
> Jack, a rescue dog that already had skills that other service animals must
> be taught, was trained by Train a Dog, Save a Warrior.
>
> Bart Sherwood, the program director for the Texas-based Train a Dog, Save a
> Warrior, said calls about service dogs working with people who have
> "invisible wounds" are frequent and he agreed that more education of the
> general public is needed
>
> Mr. Glaser said he hates being in the situation he's in but also feels that
> it's put him in a position to provide more education about service dogs.
>
> "A PTSD veteran commits suicide every 25 hours in the United States," he
> said, adding that if the dog can help, it truly can save a life.
>
> He also believes that people will start seeing more and more dogs helping
> those with PTSD and other non-visible ailments because PTSD diagnoses aren't
> limited to veterans. He's hoping they'll be treated properly and in
> accordance with the Americans with Disabilities Act.
>
> He acknowledged that there are websites that are hurting his cause by
> providing phony certificates for dogs that make it appear they're service
> animals.
>
> Mr. Ireland said he is saddened by the turn of events and admits he doesn't
> always express himself in the nicest of ways.
>
> "I know I'm not a very eloquent guy," he said. "But the next time? I will
> handle it very differently."
>
> He said he is mulling a few ideas that others have suggested such as a
> fundraiser for local veterans to try to make amends.
>
> Mr. Glaser said people have asked him about making donations to help him out
> but he doesn't want to raise money from what's happened.
>
> He suggested they donate to a properly registered veterans' charity, maybe
> even the Train a Dog, Save a Warrior program, which helped him get Jack
> trained.
>
> And he wouldn't mind if donors contributed in honor of Jack because "Jack's
> a pretty friggin' awesome little guy ... and the quality of my life is so
> much improved (with him)."
>
> Contact Kim Ring at kring at telegram.com. Follow her on Twitter @kimmring.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 1 comment | Add a comment
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