[nagdu] control was Dog problems

[Tracy Carcione]

Hi Raven.
I wonder if your trainer skipped an essential point, or maybe your school 
does things differently than what I was taught.
I was taught that correction is a 3-step process: correct, then tell the dog 
what to do instead, and praise him for doing it.  Dog is leaping around: 
Ben, no.  Ben, sit.  Good boy!
Tracy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raven Tolliver" <ravend729 at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] control was Dog problems


> Julie,
> I could not agree with you more. People go on about how they need to
> control their animals, rather than motivating them to make the right
> choices. I think it's definitely a difference between
> -correction-based methods and positive reinforcement training. Many of
> the schools still make it seem like we must dominate our dogs. These
> dogs are not trying to dominate anyone. They are looking for guidance,
> and all they want to do is please us. But popular belief is still to
> correct your dog for doing wrong rather than motivate and encourage
> them to do what is right.
> Also, schools still make it seem like collar corrections fix problems,
> when they do not. All a correction does is communicate to dogs that
> they did something wrong, it does not tell them what they can do
> instead that will yield a reward or a more positive response from the
> handler. Corrections make a dog afraid to disobey, rather than
> motivated or willing to obey.
> I too hold the philosophy of teaching self-control rather than just
> controlling a dog. There is a huge difference. But people want the
> training methods that seem easiest and quickest--all force and
> corrections, and little to no rewards. What's in it for the dog? Make
> training fun, make it enjoyable, and make it just as much about the
> dog as it is about you. Dog training is not about controlling your
> dog, it is about motivating and encouraging a dog to do the right
> thing, and it is about interacting in a way that demonstrates
> understanding, patience, consistency, and enjoyment.
> Why would a dog obey if it does not yield a reward? How can a dog
> enjoy working, training, or obedience if there is nothing in it for
> him?
> I did not understand these things until I actually started training
> dogs--until I was told that I absolutely had to use methods that were
> opposite of the ones I learned at my guide dog program. Negative
> punishment and positive reinforcement, without positive punishment or
> physical corrections. I did not believe these methods would work. But
> then I was able to implement the new things I learned, and it was
> eye-opening. I took the things I learned from my training sessions and
> started using them with my guide dog. I saw my pessimistic golden
> transform into an optimistic dog. I enjoyed working with my dog, even
> if he made a mistake or did something wrong. I enjoyed teaching him
> what was right rather than correcting him for what he did wrong. I
> really think that if guide dog schools relied more on clicker training
> and positive reinforcement, and less on correction-based methods, it
> would eliminate a lot of the frustration that comes with getting a new
> dog. At least, I think it would have for me personally.
>
> On 12/18/13, Julie J. <julielj at neb.rr.com> wrote:
>> This thread has me thinking about how I interact with my dogs. 
>> Specifically
>>
>> I am pondering the commonly used  term "control".  Often we are advised 
>> to
>> control our dogs or keep them under control.  Maybe I think too much, 
>> which
>>
>> long time listers will be nodding their heads about right now, still I 
>> can't
>>
>> help myself.
>>
>> What do we really mean by control?  It seems to me that there is a strong
>> sense of superiority, a feeling that we need to dominant another being. 
>> Is
>>
>> that what we really want?
>>
>> This morning I'm thinking I'd rather encourage my dogs to have self 
>> control.
>>
>> then they can go about their business unsupervised because I trust them. 
>> I
>>
>> don't want to micromanage their lives, any more than I want someone
>> breathing down my neck every minute.
>>
>> I see control as an imposition of my will.  I don't want to do that.   I
>> want my dogs to have as much freedom as is possible, while still living 
>> in
>> harmony in my house.  It's the same for everyone that lives here, and to 
>> a
>> lesser degree those who come to visit.  I want them to choose to do the
>> right thing, because it is what they want, not because I said so.
>>
>> Perhaps this is the fundamental difference between punishment based 
>> training
>>
>> and clicker training?  I don't know.
>>
>> Julie
>>
>>
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>
>
> -- 
> Raven
>
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