[nagdu] people taking pictures of dog or wanting to takepictures of your dog

Larry D. Keeler lkeeler at comcast.net
Wed Feb 13 20:12:35 UTC 2013


Sure is!  The issue here is divission.  Sence this a NFB list I'll use us as 
an example.  First, folks like to distinguish between thoose who hhave sight 
and those who don't.  Next, we further divide into those who use dogs, canes 
or those who use niether.  We even point out those who us slate, braille 
writer, technology or just audio!  For the record, I use slate but, I also 
use computer and other things!  If we keep dividing into smaller and smaller 
categories it becomes harder to keep a united front.  How for exdxample, do 
we get a lot of interest in guide dog issues if you're the only one who uses 
one in your chapter.  This is exactly my issue.  I am the only guide dog 
user in our Ann Arbor chapter.  The rest of my chapter members support me to 
an extent but, they have other interests.  Canes use and braille are there 
focus.  So, I had to go to the state affiliate to find more dog users so 
that we can form a committee for divissionhood.  This is not to say that I'm 
not for the things our chapter is working on or that they are not for what I 
stand for but sence I'm the only one and I know about having a dog better 
than they, I sometimes cross paths with them! We could all be considered 
people with visual impairments and so it is!  But, the severity or lack of 
severity shouldn't set us apar.  Niether should cane or dog, skin color or 
any other rediculous item that divides us!!  You know that thing that 
starts, "United we stand"!!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] people taking pictures of dog or wanting to 
takepictures of your dog


> Actually, Marsha, Kody, and others, this thread is guide dog related in 
> that it is addrssing the issues of our being set apart because we are 
> blind and are guide dog users.  It is about how we are made to be "public 
> property" in that we are so different from the rest of the non-blind 
> world.  This really sucks and it can be very invasive as people's comments 
> show.  People's feelings on this topic is valid.  How many guide dogs do 
> we think sighted folks see when out and about?  Some of the crap we deal 
> with out there stems from people not seeing us around.  When you think 
> about the blind population being about 1% of the disabled population, 
> guide dog users being a very small percent of the blind population, it 
> puts things into perspective on what we deal with and talk abouot on the 
> list with things that happen to us and our guide dogs as we go about our 
> daily lives.
>
> This thread is guide dog related because it shows how the sighted public 
> feels about the "differentness" between us blind and themselves.  People 
> may take a picture of our guide dog and that could start a thought in the 
> picture-taker's head to be curious.  that curiosity can lead to them going 
> to the Internet or library to look for information about guide dogs.  One 
> never knows how a "teachable moment" can occur.  But, we still have a 
> right not to have our picture taken withouot permission or to be made to 
> look like a freak show.  Just a thought and now I'll shut up on this 
> thread.  LOL!
>
> Lyn and Landon
>
> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is like 
> asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Eve Sanchez" <celticyaya at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 7:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] people taking pictures of dog or wanting to take 
> pictures of your dog
>
>
>> Kody, You make a valid point. I said I did not mind having my dog's 
>> picture
>> taken, it does not matter to me. But if her picture is wanted because she
>> is a tool for me, a blind person, then yeah, I would likely object. Had 
>> not
>> thought of it in this manner. Thanks. I would not have, by the way, if 
>> the
>> thread was not allowed to get here and I do not ask permission to speak.
>> Sorry. Eve
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 5:30 PM, Kody Keplinger 
>> <kodytheduff at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Marsha, if it's all right, I'd like to comment on the orginal 
>>> discussion?
>>>
>>> Personally, I'd be bothered, whether I was asked or not, by someone 
>>> wanting
>>> to take a picture of my dog (especially if they expected me to be in 
>>> it).
>>>  To me, wanting a picture of me with a guide dog means that they see me 
>>> as
>>> something worth noting, something "odd" or "unusual" - why else take a
>>> photo?  It's one thing if it's a friend who wants to keep a memory, but 
>>> a
>>> stranger is just not okay. I am not all right with being seein as 
>>> something
>>> "cool" for people to remember. If they asked, I'd be polite and say no, 
>>> but
>>> if they didn't, I'd be pretty infuriated.
>>>
>>> Now, if they just wanted a picture of the dog because it was pretty 
>>> (hey, I
>>> LOVE pictures of dogs!) then that's different. But if it's the fact that
>>> it's a GUIDE DOG that they're interested in, I'm not cool with that. My
>>> guide dog - just like my CCTV or my cane - is to benefit me, not to 
>>> bring
>>> amusement to others.
>>>
>>> I hope that makes sense.  I get pretty sensitive about people making a 
>>> big
>>> deal about my disability, and taking a photo is just one way that 
>>> happens.
>>>  And again, this is just coming from a place of not having a dog yet, 
>>> but
>>> it's my immediate reaction upon hearing the discussion in this thread.
>>>
>>> And again, Marsha, I hope it's all right that I came back to this thread
>>> since I was discussing the original point? If not, sorry!
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 8:09 PM, Marsha Drenth <marsha.drenth at gmail.com
>>> >wrote:
>>>
>>> > Ok this thread goes no further. Its about blindness, but not guide 
>>> > dogs.
>>> > so unless we can all relate it to our pups, no more posting on this
>>> subject.
>>> >
>>> > Thank you,
>>> >
>>> > Marsha drenth, NAGDU List Moderator
>>> > Sent with my IPhone
>>> > http://adventureswith2feet4paws.blogspot.com
>>> >
>>> > On Feb 12, 2013, at 6:01 PM, "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Gee, Eve,
>>> > > This all soounds like a dialog out of the LGBT community when people
>>> > dump on the "straight-acting" who can "pass" in straight society and 
>>> > the
>>> > "out, prouod and loud" types who make the straight acting ones cringe.
>>> The
>>> > "straight acting" folks cringe because I am not a part of that camp. 
>>> > Us
>>> > out and visible folks see this and we tend to diss the other folks -
>>> which
>>> > I try not to do.  No different whether it's LGBTs , blind folks, or 
>>> > other
>>> > disabled folks.  Makes my head hurt! LOL!  I've known partially blind
>>> folks
>>> > acting like this to the totally blind.  I once knew this partially
>>> sighted
>>> > woman who was actually - she admitted it - that she was embarrassed to 
>>> > be
>>> > around the totals - and around guide dog users.  Well, guess what? 
>>> > She
>>> > lost the remainder of her vision and got a guide dog!
>>> > >
>>> > > Yeah, like I said in my previous post, some totally blind have 
>>> > > dissed
>>> > those of us with some sight.  Unfortunately, I have seen this alot 
>>> > among
>>> > some NFB members!  I've been made to feel not as good in NFB because I
>>> have
>>> > some usable sight.  But, I just blew that all off - can't hide being
>>> blind
>>> > or LGBT and feel that folks just have to get over themselves about it. 
>>> > I
>>> > am not ashamed to be blind, use a white cane or guide dog.  And I 
>>> > think
>>> you
>>> > are the same way.
>>> > >
>>> > > Larry, yeah, we need to stop the divisions between those who have
>>> > remaining sight and those who do not.  We all lose as a community 
>>> > while
>>> we
>>> > all fight over who has sight or not.  I agree with you guys.  I am 
>>> > glad
>>> > that there isn't so much of that going on here in our blind community 
>>> > in
>>> > San Diego. Amounts of vision people have is pretty fluid with eye
>>> > conditions that improve or go south!
>>> > >
>>> > > Lyn and Landon
>>> > >
>>> > > "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is
>>> > like asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
>>> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eve Sanchez" 
>>> > > <celticyaya at gmail.com
>>> >
>>> > > To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>> > > <
>>> > nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> > > Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 2:52 PM
>>> > > Subject: Re: [nagdu] people taking pictures of dog or wanting to 
>>> > > take
>>> > pictures of your dog
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >> I agree with most everything that you said except that I always see
>>> > the, I
>>> > >> hate to say it, 'totals' thinking they are better as they are more
>>> > blind or
>>> > >> really blind. I have dealt with most of my life, never fitting in
>>> > anywhere
>>> > >> and even had to deal with when i was getting my present dog, from
>>> > another
>>> > >> student.  All of that aside, I love your chopstick analogy. Great!
>>> > Blessed
>>> > >> Be. Eve
>>> > >>
>>> > >> On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 2:32 PM, d m gina <dmgina at samobile.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> > >>
>>> > >>> I need to work with my dog with his booties.
>>> > >>> That is a swell idea in a parade to have him wear them.
>>> > >>> I would love to see us in the Christmas parade this year.
>>> > >>> How far advanced do you need to plan for this?
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Original message:
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Hi Eve,
>>> > >>>> I can see what you mean about the labels, "partials or sighteds" 
>>> > >>>> and
>>> > >>>> "Totals" and the stigmas attached to them.  This sucks but is
>>> > reality. It
>>> > >>>> is like in the Black community light skinned or dark skinned and 
>>> > >>>> the
>>> > >>>> stigma
>>> > >>>> is more on the dark skinned as the totals are looked upon as less 
>>> > >>>> in
>>> > the
>>> > >>>> blind community.  On both couonts it is wrong!
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> You should NEVER play second fiddle to anyone else just because 
>>> > >>> they
>>> > may
>>> > >>>> possess more or full eyesight.  I've seen this behavior mainly in
>>> the
>>> > >>>> blind
>>> > >>>> schools where some people feel the need to dump on someone else -
>>> > well,
>>> > >>>> the
>>> > >>>> totals.  Partials have some sight so they would be in the 
>>> > >>>> "sighted
>>> > camp"
>>> > >>>> even though partials get crap from both sides - fully sighted
>>> (you're
>>> > not
>>> > >>>> really blind - you're faking it!) or totals who may begrudge
>>> partials
>>> > for
>>> > >>>> having some sighted privilege.  But we all - totals and 
>>> > >>>> partials -
>>> > really
>>> > >>>> get the crap from society that decides what we can or can't do 
>>> > >>>> based
>>> > on
>>> > >>>> misconceptions, fear, and plain old bigotry rather than going to 
>>> > >>>> the
>>> > >>>> experts - those of us with the blindness.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> The truth is that we are all blind and we all have alot of 
>>> > >>> challenges
>>> > >>>> although they may vary.  I have friends who are fully sighted,
>>> > partially
>>> > >>>> sighted, and totally blind - makes no difference to me.  I judge
>>> them
>>> > on
>>> > >>>> what kind of person they are.  Yeah, I'm a low partial - I use a
>>> guide
>>> > >>>> dog.
>>> > >>>> I used to be a high partial when I was a teenager and I rode my 
>>> > >>>> bike
>>> > all
>>> > >>>> over town.  I agree, we should junk the labels and just become
>>> people
>>> > with
>>> > >>>> some extra issues to be dealt with.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Oh yeah, I don't care who takes my dog's picture.  Landon's wound 
>>> > >>> up
>>> on
>>> > >>>> people's Facebook! They all ask me first.  Landon was doing
>>> something
>>> > cute
>>> > >>>> like lie with his head up and his front legs crossed like he was
>>> > royalty!
>>> > >>>> I
>>> > >>>> saw the pix and thought they were very cute.  They didn't take my
>>> > picture
>>> > >>>> -
>>> > >>>> just the dog.  The people who took the pix then asked me about 
>>> > >>>> guide
>>> > dogs
>>> > >>>> and I used it as a learning/teaching moment. I have some of these
>>> > cute pix
>>> > >>>> on my own Facebook timeline and i don't mind if my FB friends 
>>> > >>>> share
>>> > them.
>>> > >>>> Many of these friends love Landon!  LOL!  Oh, who knows how many 
>>> > >>>> pix
>>> > get
>>> > >>>> taken of Landon with his booties on as we march in the Pride 
>>> > >>>> Parade!
>>> > >>>> Maybe
>>> > >>>> seeing Landon in booties will remind them to use booties on their
>>> own
>>> > dogs
>>> > >>>> on hot pavement.  One never knows.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Take care,
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Lyn and Landon
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship 
>>> > >>> is
>>> > like
>>> > >>>> asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> > >>>> From: "Eve Sanchez" <celticyaya at gmail.com>
>>> > >>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>> > >>>> Users"
>>> > >>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> > >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2013 6:02 PM
>>> > >>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] people taking pictures of dog or wanting to
>>> take
>>> > >>>> pictures of your dog
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> I have no problem with my dog getting her picture taken as long as 
>>> > >>> no
>>> > one
>>> > >>>>> talks to her and I am not in the picture without knowing. I may 
>>> > >>>>> be
>>> > having
>>> > >>>>> a
>>> > >>>>> fat day or not have my makeup on or something. My dog is not as
>>> vain.
>>> > >>>>> What
>>> > >>>>> does piss me off, in a side note, is the designation between
>>> sighted
>>> > and
>>> > >>>>> totals. This always seems to come from the 'total' as they like 
>>> > >>>>> to
>>> > call
>>> > >>>>> themselves as seems to be a type of prejudice in that they feel
>>> they
>>> > are
>>> > >>>>> more disabled or more blind than others. Sorry to vent on this, 
>>> > >>>>> but
>>> > it
>>> > >>>>> really pisses me off and I know I am not the only one who feels
>>> this
>>> > way
>>> > >>>>> though many people will not say so. I would appreciate the terms
>>> > going
>>> > >>>>> away. Thanks for the opportunity to get my word out. Eve
>>> > >>> On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 1:36 PM, cheryl echevarria
>>> > >>>>> <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com
>>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>>>>> wrote:
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Yes I am also with Lion International and the Brentwood Chamber of
>>> > >>>>>> Commerce and other Travel Agent Organizations.
>>> > >>>>>> But I do not let anyone come up to me and take a picture of me 
>>> > >>>>>> or
>>> > Maxx.
>>> > >>>>>> These are different situations.
>>> > >>>>>> Have a great day to all. Bright and sunny after the Blizzard. 
>>> > >>>>>> Um
>>> > isn't
>>> > >>>>>> Nemo a fish and Captain Nemo for 20,000 leagues under the sea, 
>>> > >>>>>> I
>>> > just
>>> > >>>>>> don't
>>> > >>>>>> know where they get the names of these storms from.
>>> > >>>>>> Lol.
>>> > >>> Disabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State
>>> > >>>>>> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!SNG Certified - 
>>> > >>>>>> Accessible
>>> > Travel
>>> > >>>>>> Advocate!Cheryl Echevarria, Ownerhttp://
>>> > >>>>>> www.echevarriatravel.com631-**456-5394reservations@**
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > echevarriatravel.comhttp://**www.echevarriatravel.**wordpress.com2012
>>> > >>>>>> Norwegian Cruise Line University Advisory Board Member.
>>> > >>>>>> Affiliated as an independent contractor with Montrose 
>>> > >>>>>> TravelCST -
>>> > >>>>>> #1018299-10Echevarria Travel and proud member of the National
>>> > Federation
>>> > >>>>>> of
>>> > >>>>>> the Blind will be holding a year round fundraiser for the
>>> > >>>>>> http://www.NFBNY.org <http://www.nfbny.org/> <
>>> http://www.nfbny.org/> <http://www.nfbny.org/
>>> > >
>>> > >>>>>> after Hurricane Sandy and
>>> > >>>>>> other resources. Any vacation package booked between November 6
>>> > >>>>>> 2012-November 6, 2013 and vacation must be traveled no later 
>>> > >>>>>> than
>>> > >>>>>> 12/30/2014 a percentage of my earnings will go to the 
>>> > >>>>>> affiliate.
>>> >  Also
>>> > >>>>>> is
>>> > >>>>>> you book a Sandals for couples or Beaches for families and 
>>> > >>>>>> friends
>>> > >>>>>> resorts
>>> > >>>>>> vacation, $100.00 per booking will go to the affiliate as well.
>>> >  You do
>>> > >>>>>> not
>>> > >>>>>> need to be a member of the NFB.org, just book through us.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>  From: lkeeler at comcast.net
>>> > >>>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> > >>>>>>> Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 16:22:35 -0500
>>> > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] people taking pictures of dog or wanting 
>>> > >>>>>>> to
>>> > take
>>> > >>>>>> pictures of your dog
>>> > >>>  Cheryl, sometimes I do and sometimes I don't.  I have a picture 
>>> > >>> of
>>> > >>>>>>> Holly
>>> > >>>>>> and
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>> I with the bishop.  I also have a couple with the Knights of
>>> > Columbus.
>>> > >>>>>> AIn
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>> these cases, I allowed it to prove that these organizations 
>>> > >>>>>>> will
>>> > admit
>>> > >>>>>> and
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>> approve of blind folks and there service animals.
>>> > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> > >>>>>>> From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
>>> > >>>>>>> To: "nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>; "nyagdu" <nyagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> > >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2013 12:05 PM
>>> > >>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] people taking pictures of dog or wanting to 
>>> > >>>>>>> take
>>> > >>>>>> pictures
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>> of your dog
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>  Good morning everyone:
>>> > >>>>>>>> Nelson is busy shoveling the snow outside from Nemo, Blizzard
>>> > 2013.
>>> > >>>>>>>> Anyway, while I was in Washington, D.C. this past week with 
>>> > >>>>>>>> some
>>> > of
>>> > >>>>>>> you. I
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>> was talking with some members of the Utah Chapter and a woman,
>>> who
>>> > >>>>>>>> was
>>> > >>>>>>> not
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>> a member of the NFB, a guest in the hotel asked me if she 
>>> > >>>>>>> could
>>> > take
>>> > >>>>>>>> a
>>> > >>>>>>>> picture of Maxx.
>>> > >>>>>>>> I said no. She asked me why. Well first I said, "Because I do
>>> not
>>> > >>>>>>>> want
>>> > >>>>>>> my
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>> dog all over social media from strangers that I do not know", 
>>> > >>>>>>> she
>>> > >>>>>>> became
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>> quite obnoxious about it. I put it to her this way. I said are
>>> you
>>> > a
>>> > >>>>>>>> parent, she said yes. Well would you like any of your family 
>>> > >>>>>>>> or
>>> > >>>>>>> children
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>> to have there pictures taken by strangers posted all over the
>>> > >>>>>>>> internet.
>>> > >>>>>>>> That is not right.
>>> > >>>>>>>> Then she got it and understood.
>>> > >>>>>>>> Have you had the same issues. Sometime someone tells me that
>>> they
>>> > >>>>>>>> took
>>> > >>>>>>> a
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>> picture of me and the dog, and I get upset, only because they
>>> > didn't
>>> > >>>>>>> ask
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>> and the same issue. I should be the one to post pictures and
>>> videos
>>> > >>>>>>>> of
>>> > >>>>>>> me
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>> and maxx if I want, but not strangers.
>>> > >>>>>>>> Cheryl
>>> > >>>  Disabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State
>>> > >>>>>>>> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!SNG Certified - 
>>> > >>>>>>>> Accessible
>>> > >>>>>>>> Travel
>>> > >>>>>>>> Advocate!Cheryl Echevarria,
>>> > >>>>>>>> Ownerhttp://www.**echevarriatravel.com631-456-**5394reservations
>>> > >>>>>>>
>>> > @echevarriatravel.comhttp://**www.echevarriatravel.**wordpress.com2012
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>> Norwegian Cruise Line University Advisory Board Member.
>>> > >>>>>>>> Affiliated as an independent contractor with Montrose 
>>> > >>>>>>>> TravelCST
>>> -
>>> > >>>>>>>> #1018299-10Echevarria Travel and proud member of the National
>>> > >>>>>>> Federation
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>> of the Blind will be holding a year round fundraiser for the
>>> > >>>>>>>> http://www.NFBNY.org <http://www.nfbny.org/> <
>>> http://www.nfbny.org/> <
>>> > http://www.nfbny.org/>
>>> > >>>>>>>> after Hurricane Sandy
>>> > >>>>>>> and other resources. Any
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>> vacation package booked between November 6 2012-November 6, 
>>> > >>>>>>> 2013
>>> > and
>>> > >>>>>>>> vacation must be traveled no later than 12/30/2014 a 
>>> > >>>>>>>> percentage
>>> > of my
>>> > >>>>>>>> earnings will go to the affiliate.  Also is you book a 
>>> > >>>>>>>> Sandals
>>> for
>>> > >>>>>>> couples
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>> or Beaches for families and friends resorts vacation, $100.00 
>>> > >>>>>>> per
>>> > >>>>>>> booking
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>> will go to the affiliate as well.  You do not need to be a 
>>> > >>>>>>> member
>>> > of
>>> > >>>>>>> the
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>> NFB.org, just book through us.
>>> > >>>  ______________________________**_________________
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>>> >
>>> > >>>
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>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> --
>>> > >>> --Dar
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Kody Keplinger*
>>> http://kodykeplinger.com
>>>
>>> author of:
>>> *THE DUFF (Designated Ugly Fat Friend) - an ALA Top Ten Quick Pick for
>>> Reluctant Young Readers.*
>>> *AVAILABLE NOW!*
>>> *
>>> *
>>> *SHUT OUT - available September 5th!*
>>>  _______________________________________________
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>
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