[nagdu] clicker training

Tue Feb 19 15:18:20 UTC 2013

Makes total sense. 
Thank you.

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 10:14 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] clicker training

The main difference is that sighted people are watching for very subtle 
body movements or the dog looking a certain direction.  For example one 
of the first things sighted trainers suggest teaching a dog is for eye 
contact.  I tried all sorts of lighting and contrast set ups so I could 
see where Belle was looking, but I spent a crazy amount of energy and 
mental effort straining to see, that I wasn't very effective with the 
clicker part of the process.  Then I tried putting one hand on her head 
or neck so I could feel which way she was looking, but this isn't very 
effective either.  So I started thinking and talking with other blind 
people who were using clicker methods.  They were telling me to skip the 
eye contact thing and use a hand target instead.  this made a lot of 
sense to me.  As a blind person the dog giving me eye contact isn't 
going to be useful in the long run, but the dog touching my hand with 
it's nose could be incredibly useful.  So a hand target is what I teach 
to substitute for the eye contact thing.  Sighted trainers use eye 
contact to get the dog's attention back to the handler.  The hand target 
serves the same purpose for me.

When shaping a new behavior I will click when the dog moves toward what 
I want.  a sighted trainer might click when the dog looks toward what 
the trainer wants.  For the average user in a functional daily situation 
I don't think there's much disadvantage to clicking for movement instead 
of glances.  Now if you wanted to teach your dog to blink on cue or roll 
it's eyes or something like that, say for dogs on TV, well then a blind 
trainer is going to have to be more creative than I am!

Julie

On 2/19/2013 9:01 AM, Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) wrote:
> Julie,
> Can you explain clicker training the way a sighted person would do it, and the way a blind person would?
> Anybody else can take a stab at this too.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 9:06 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] clicker training
>
> Ann and Tami,
>
> Thank you!  I never know how detailed to get for the beginner.  I
> remember how terribly inadequate I felt when I first started, mainly
> because I was trying to use clicker the way sighted people do.  But
> anyway, I don't want to overwhelm people, but at the same time I want
> there to be enough info to provide a solid start.
>
> Tami, I don't necessarily think talking is a bad thing.  I just find
> that it doesn't work for me, at least not in the very first few sessions
> teaching a new skill.  As the dog gets better with the skill and I move
> into the random reinforcement phase I do definitely talk to the dog,
> providing verbal coaching if needed.  Monty understands an amazing array
> of words.  He still surprises me frequently with how much he understands.
>
> Just a couple of days ago I was looking for one of this toys, a new
> stuffed dog.  He usually doesn't get stuffed toys because he tears them
> up so fast, but he loves them.  Every once in a while I give him one,
> but check it frequently for tears. So I was looking for the toy and
> couldn't find it.  I asked him, "where is your dog?"  He went and got it
> out of his kennel and brought it to me.  I never taught him any of those
> words.  He could have picked up from the context of me looking that I
> wanted something, but how did he know which item?  Over the next couple
> of days I would ask him at random times to bring me his dog, he did each
> time. He has picked up a fair number of words in this way.
>
> I do talk to him in full sentences a fair bit.  I'm not expecting any
> specific results.  Mostly it's just me thinking out loud, but over the
> years he has  figured out more than I ever anticipated he would.
>
> Julie
>
>
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