[nagdu] airline question

Ann Edie annedie at nycap.rr.com
Thu Jul 4 11:14:56 UTC 2013


Hi, Gary,

I understand that you in Canada get the extra seat for no extra charge.  But
in this country, we have fought to be treated like any other passenger,
keeping our dogs under the seat in front of us and sitting wherever we want
to on the plane (except emergency exit rows.)  The last time I looked at the
regulations that accompany our Air Carrier Access Act, they said that if the
service animal takes up more than the space in front of the passenger's seat
and encroaches into the space in front of another seat, that one of the
options for the airline is that the passenger can be charged for another
seat.  (Just as, I believe, if a passenger is too large to fit into a single
seat and encroaches on the seat space of another passenger, the large
passenger can be charged for another seat.)

I don't know of any instances where this rule has actually been put into
effect.  Usually they can arrange to have the person with the large service
animal sit next to an empty seat or next to a person who doesn't mind
sharing his/her foot space with a dog.  But if the plane is full and every
seat has been sold and no one wants to share their space, then the airline
can ask the passenger who takes up more than his/her allotted space, or
whose dog takes up more than the space in front of the passenger, to take a
later flight or pay for the extra space.  Usually they just try to force us
to sit in the bulkhead row where they believe there is more space for the
dog to spread out.  And we have to fight for the right to make our own
decision about whether we want to accept this accommodation or whether we
want to put the dog under the seat in front of us.

We certainly have flights in the U.S. that last longer than 4 hours.  We
have again fought to be permitted to take our guides on even longer flights,
such as to Europe or Australia, and we wouldn't want to feed into any
airline attempts to decide for us how long a flight is okay for a guide dog
or how we will manage our own travel with our service animals.

Actually, I don't think most of us blind people in the U.S. would want a
sighted guide to ride free on airplanes.  We fight long and hard to be seen
as fully competent adults with all the rights  and responsibilities of
citizens.  If we were to accept free travel for our companions (who may
coincidentally be serving as sighted guides,) this would just reinforce the
stereotype that blind people cannot travel independently and need keepers.
And it seems to me that this provision of a free seat for sighted guides
would be much too easily abused.  For example, if I am traveling with my
sighted husband, what's to stop me from saying that he is acting as my
sighted guide and therefore should be given free passage, even though he
would have been traveling with me regardless of whether I was blind or not?
And if I am traveling with my business colleague, again what is to stop us
from asserting that that person is my guide, rather than simply an
acquaintance who is going to the same destination?

Generally I applaud our neighbor to the north's enlightened policies on
social issues.  But in this case, I think giving blind persons special
privileges to have another person travel with them for free sends the wrong
message about the ability of blind people to travel and live independently
and to support themselves financially.  Now if a person who is disabled
actually does need an attendant to travel, and the person who is acting as
the attendant would not be traveling apart from his/her function as the
disabled person's attendant, then it might be reasonable to provide the
attendant's seat for free.  But I wonder how abuse of this provision could
be prevented--one would probably need doctor's documentation of the need for
the attendant, and maybe also proof that the attendant is a paid personal
care attendant, rather than merely a family member or traveling
companion--and we generally object to provisions that require us to provide
additional documentation of our disability and portray us as ill or
incompetent.  I would not want this provision to apply to blind people
because I don't agree that blind people need attendants, and I think it
would send a harmful and erroneous message about blind people and would make
it harder for us to get jobs, for example, and to be permitted to take care
of our own children, etc.

By the way, I do know of instances where persons who are blind and use
miniature horse guides have been charged for an extra seat on an airplane
because the miniature horse guide took up more than the space in front of
the passenger's seat.  While I would find it difficult to afford the cost of
an extra seat, and this might affect my choice as to whether to fly
accompanied by my miniature horse guide, I think it is generally reasonable,
as long as it applies equally to all types of service animals, as well as
passengers traveling with attendants, to passengers who themselves take up
more than one seat of space, or to passengers who might need special
equipment at their seats that takes up more than one seat of space in order
to travel.  Generally I have found that passengers are falling all over
themselves to vie for the privilege of sitting next to the person with the
guide horse, so there is no real need to pay for the extra seat.

It is always interesting to hear about the different accommodations provided
in other countries and to speculate on what these different accommodations
say about us as people who happen to be blind

Best,
Ann

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of GARY STEEVES
Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 3:10 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] airline question

Hi Ann:

No, I think you misunderstood me. The carriers are mandated to provide the
seat space for no charge in Canada which is an awesome rule that has been
put into place.

I know there are many of you on the list that might say my dog as no
problems fitting under the seat in front of me, which may be the case.
However, most of the flights I take are 4 to 5 hours in length and I think
that would be cruel to make Bogart stay laying in that confined space.
Personally I think it is a rule I'd be advocating for if I lived in the
states. It is perhaps part of the Canada Transportation Agencies "One person
one fare" policy. This refers to if you require an attendant to travel with
you that you don't have to pay for the attendant's ticket. One of our major
airlines looks at as a sighted guide in this light where as the other major
carrier does not see a sighted guide as an"attendant". 

Gary

----- Original Message -----
From: Ann Edie <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 17:23:43 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: [nagdu] airline question

Gary, here they would charge us for the extra seat.  So I hope your wish for
that extra space being mandated doesn't come true here.

Best,
Ann

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of GARY STEEVES
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 4:07 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] airline question

Hi Dar:

This was most likely the travel agent wanting to be sure they had answers to
any questions they could be asked. If it was me, I would djust politely ask
why they are interested in this information.

In Canada, the great socialist nation to the norht, <big smile> we have a
rule through the Canadian Transportation Agency that demands any service dog
over 50 lbs must be provided with a seat space. This means the seat  next to
me will be free leaving room for Bogart and my feet. Poodles don't slide
themselves as easily into small spaces as some labs do. :) This is for
planes, trains, buses, boats or space shutttles. Even when I took a direct
Air Canada flight to London UK last year this policy was in play. I keep
mentioning it so someday, when Bogart and I fly to the states, this policy
will exist there too. :)

Enjoy your flight.

Gary

----- Original Message -----
From: Jessica Diaz PC <jldiaz421 at gmail.com>
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sun, 07 Apr 2013 08:17:28 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: [nagdu] airline question

Hello
I know I will get mixed reviews on what I am going to say but I learned over
time just not to mention the dog when traveling anywhere in the US. When I
fly and issues arise, I handle them when they come up. Most of the time when
they see my dog and how calm he is, I rarely except when flying jet blue
which is why I don't anymore have any problems.
Jessica Diaz

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of d m Gina
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 12:28 PM
To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nagdu] airline question

Hello,
yesterday while making the tickets for the convention, one of the questions
after I shared I have a guide dog.
Was, how much does the dog weigh, and what kind of dog is it.
We are flying united.
Going and coming.
Do the schools get asked the same questions for each dog that goes home with
us after training?
Is this to make sure that the plane can handle all of the weight for the
plane, asking anyone who has a dog?
I felt frustrated, did answer all questions.
We were told if there were any more questions they would call back.
We used an agency here in town.
Thanks again,

--
--Dar
Skype: dmgina23
  FB: dmgina
www.twitter.com/dmgina
every saint has a past
every sinner has a future

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