[nagdu] National Convention--my opinion

Michael Hingson info at michaelhingson.com
Wed Jul 10 19:10:42 UTC 2013

I would like to point out that also the NFB does settle all charges at the
end of or shortly after the convention.  So, if there are cleaning charges
added to the Federation's bill we do not see them, but they are there.  So,
it is not just the relief area, but charges due to accidents within the
property walls.

I have no idea of what, if any, chargers we incurred this year, but we
should help make sure the NFB has the money to pay for them.

I am not sure I agree with the Concept that a fee for using the relief area
is a sir charge, but I would rather not go down that road.  A voluntary
option at the time of registration makes sense.  We can discuss the amount.

Of course, another idea would be to simply add $2 or so to every
registration fee.  In that way the cost is spread around.

There are all sorts of options.  Let's talk Sunday.  We are not going to
solve this before then.


Michael Hingson

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of National
Association of Guide Dog Users
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 12:02 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] National Convention--my opinion

	Do you remember when there were pay toilets? I believe that practice
was discontinued because it was deemed to not be in the public interest. I
believe charging guide dog users for the privilege of using a relief area
could be construed as a surcharge and, by definition, would be
discriminatory. At the same time, I believe those of us who use the relief
areas would be best served by making contributions to its upkeep. The
challenge is that those of us who are responsible will voluntarily make such
contributions while those who are not will likely not. It is much the same
as for our meetings. Those who attend the meetings and make contributions as
we pass the dog bowl understand it is our civic duty. Those who do not
attend our meetings are those who have other ideas in this respect. This is
not to say that there are other reasons, such as conflicts in scheduling,
for not attending our meetings; however, the vast majority of guide dog
users do not come to our meeting due to apathy. At a convention a few years
ago, one person told me NAGDU had nothing to offer him. About three months
later he called me to ask what NAGDU was going to do about an issue he was
having. I reminded him of his "NAGDU has nothing to offer" comment, then
help him out. He promised he would become more active. I haven't heard from
him since!
	There are practical considerations we need to take into account due
to the sheer number of dogs in one place and, I am of the opinion that we
should all do our parts in ensuring that our hosts do not suffer losses
because of our presence. By this, I mean that those who tend to be a little
defiant of rules would do better by understanding that public order is best
served when we comply with some basic codes of etiquette. 
	If we go to someone's home and our dog relieves itself on the
carpet, thus damaging that person's property, most of us feel it is our
responsibility to take care of the problem. When we visit a large hotel, we
should also take collective care to not damage the property. As I mentioned
in an earlier post, the number of dogs requires we employ different
practices than when we are the only guest with a service dog. If we were to
allow 400 dogs to relieve on a small patch of grass, the urine would damage
the landscape; therefore, we need to employ unusual circumstance of a relief
	I know this is redundant, but I say all this again in the hope it
will get through to those who may not appreciate how 400 dogs can impact a
property's landscape. 
	We are working to find solutions to the problems we face during
convention, one of which is how to accommodate for so many guide dogs. We
have a year to brainstorm and plan how we will solve this problem. If we had
an easy, economical alternative, we would be more than willing to consider
it. Please let us know your thoughts!

Fraternally yours,

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 11:01 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] National Convention--my opinion

Isn't requiring guide dog users to pay a fee for a service or participating
in an event against our beliefs as an organization?

I've always felt that NAGDU  was opposed to charging guide dog users fees
based on their choice to use a guide dog.  I don't know about the legality
of doing this in this particular situation, but if the hotel did it, there
would be a giant fuss about it.  If we wouldn't put up with it from the
hotel, why would we impose it on ourselves?  I'm not trying to start
anything, but it seems like a contradiction to me.


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