[nagdu] Quality of Training was pilot dogs traffic checks

Fri Jul 12 12:20:54 UTC 2013

Dear All,
	I believe that, for the most part, all the training programs do a
good job as it pertains to the quality of training. From my personal point
of view, the differences I observe are with the philosophies of the programs
and the resulting manner in which consumers are viewed and treated. The
purpose of the Guide Dog Consumers' Bill of Rights is to outline certain
standards the National Association of Guide Dog Users and the National
Federation of the Blind believe to be dignified, respectful  treatment of
blind consumers. It gives blind consumers considering a training program
elements to consider when evaluating a training program. Whether a training
program agrees with the Bill of Rights or not matters less to me than
affording consumers a tool to measure how a training program measures up.
	In a market driven economy, it is best for those who provide goods
and/or services to listen to their consumers and meet their needs. As the
collective voice of blind consumers, we believe it is our responsibility to
inform the public about what we believe is a good service by establishing
reasonable standards for measuring what quality training involves. The Bill
of Rights is our operational definition of this abstract, subjective term.
As consumers, it is our right to ask training programs how they measure up
and our responsibility to demand they modify their policies, practices, and
procedures to align themselves with what we believe is dignified treatment.
	It is my goal over the next year to publish several articles in the
Braille Monitor and on our Harness Up! Blog on this topic. As we shift the
paradigm of the blind from beneficiaries to consumers of guide dog training
programs, those who raise millions of dollars from the public on our behalf
will either need to realign their philosophies or accept the consequences of
not doing so.
	All guide dog training programs have four stakeholders: Consumers,
volunteers, donors, and employees. Some programs seem to consider the most
important stakeholder to be the donor. Some of these programs solicit
donations by telling donors how important their work is and, in so many
words,  how the plight of the blind is made better by their services. Such
an approach may serve the training program employing this tactic by making
the public feel sorry for us and give money to improve our plight, but what
does it do to us as blind people? How does it impact our everyday lives? Is
it partly responsible for the misconceptions we face from the public many of
us on this list have complained about? Is it partly responsible for our high
unemployment rate? Do the ways in which we are portrayed by the so-called
experts in the field of blindness have an impact on our lives? These are the
sorts of questions I hope to address in the future in the effort to continue
shifting the paradigm. Your comments are respectfully requested!

Fraternally  yours,

Marion Gwizdala, President
National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc.
National Federation of the Blind
(813) 626-2789 (Office)
888-NAGDU411 (Hotline
President at nagdu.org
www.nagdu.org

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Danielle Antoine
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 1:03 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training Program
sat NAGDU Meeting

But, could it be that they don't know or can't tell the difference because
they have never had any other experience? Are there any other grads who have
gone to Pilot after another program on hear? I will say that I've been on a
few non-school specific lists and as stated previously they all seem happy
with there training. this is very interesting and I don't really have much
info nor have I seen any working teams from there so I'd like to hear more
about Pilot Dogs.
that's what I've always heard though that they didn't do planned traffic
checks. Kind of worrisome!

Danielle

On 7/10/13, rhonda cruz <rhondaprincess at gmail.com> wrote:
>  hello may, keeps me safe every time we travel together,  she has done 
> many traffic  checks,  and we work hard to.
>  i feel pilot did a good job at mamatching us.
>
> On Jul 8, 2013, at 12:58 PM, Howard J. Levine wrote:
>
>> I agree if a xchool is going to cut back on traffic checks what else 
>> are they cutting back on. You want to know how your guide dog is 
>> going ot react to problem and keep you safe.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of National 
>> Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 3:49 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training 
>> Program sat NAGDU Meeting
>>
>> Rebecca.
>> 	This may be an issue of not knowing rather than not caring. I 
>> believe traffic checks are an important part of guide dog work and, 
>> to the best of my knowledge, Pilot is the only guide dog training 
>> program that does not include them in their training! If Pilot 
>> consumers knew how important they were and that everyone else gets 
>> what they do not, perhaps they would speak up. Then again, they may 
>> be met with the same sort of irrational excuses other training 
>> programs offer us and we are expected to accept without question! For 
>> instance, Pilot may assert that traffic checks are unnecessary and 
>> their consumers are expected to accept this without question. If they 
>> are not important, why does every other program put such a major 
>> emphasis on them?
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Star Gazer
>> Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 12:03 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training 
>> Program sat NAGDU Meeting
>>
>> Steve,
>> The Pilot grads don't seem to mind this though. So why would they 
>> speak up?
>> To them, it isn't a problem. To me, it's a deal breaker.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven 
>> Johnson
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 7:07 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training 
>> Program sat NAGDU Meeting
>>
>> Deanna, you make an excellent point.  Having a controlled traffic 
>> check can help the student get prepared for what is inevitable.  
>> Whether it is a gas powered car, quiet car, bicycle, skateboard; we 
>> can begin to learn and feel how our dogs react to those situations.  
>> Sometimes they are slight, and sometimes, very apparent checks as we 
>> all know.  What would be ideal is for the Pilot grads to step up and 
>> simply make this request.  The more they hear from, the more likely 
>> they might listen, and a potential change could be made.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Deanna 
>> Lewis
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 10:43 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training 
>> Programsat NAGDU Meeting
>>
>> I am sorry, but I would rather have a trained professional driving a 
>> car and testing my dog and I, than I would to have a random stranger 
>> who is not paying attention come close to, or actually hitting us. 
>> Drivers nowadays are so careless and they are always on their cell 
>> phones, texting, putting on makeup, and so forth. They just do not 
>> pay attention to pedestrians.
>> I strongly believe that planned traffic checks are an essential part 
>> of guide dog training.
>> Deanna and Pascal
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darla 
>> Rogers
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 11:30 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training 
>> Programsat NAGDU Meeting
>>
>> Dear Chantel,
>>
>> That is totally ridiculous; I wouldn't want a dog who freaked out 
>> with artificial traffic checks.
>> Darla & Handsome Huck
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chantel 
>> Cuddemi
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 11:39 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training 
>> Programsat NAGDU Meeting
>>
>> Guys,
>>
>> Students and dogs were freaked out by the artificial traffic checks 
>> set up by Pilot. I wasn't aware that the dogs go through artificial 
>> traffic checks before we got them.
>>
>> On 7/2/13, Larry D. Keeler <lkeeler at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> That I didn't know! I just know that between Holly and I we don't 
>>> have any probblems! She'll stop whebn cars are coming and go around 
>>> those that park in the middle of the street.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Snow White Dove" <jlperdue3 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 6:19 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training 
>>> Programsat NAGDU Meeting
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Ava,
>>>>
>>>> Pilot dogs does traffic checks while the dogs are in their training 
>>>> period
>>>>
>>>> with the trainers, before they get to you.
>>>>
>>>> You're right though, there are plenty of opportunities for the dog 
>>>> to show
>>>>
>>>> you it'll stop for traffic during your training itself.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>
>>>> Jenny
>>>> On Jul 2, 2013, at 3:16 AM, avapup.7 at gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've heard this before, that pilot dogs doesn't do traffic checks.
>>>>> As I am considering this program for after my Cocoa girl retires 
>>>>> I'm wondering
>>>>>
>>>>> if it's maybe a difference in terminology? I mean, their dogs are 
>>>>> trained
>>>>>
>>>>> to stop if a car approaches, right? Like, intelligent disobedience?
>>>>> But is it that pilot dogs doesn't set up artificial situations for 
>>>>> their students where they have a car driven by a staff member to 
>>>>> test them? I'd
>>>>>
>>>>> think that in Columbus there would be plenty of real life traffic 
>>>>> checks
>>>>>
>>>>> without setting them up like other schools do! Ugh, Columbus 
>>>>> traffic! Do
>>>>>
>>>>> I have it right or am I thinking of something different? Thanks!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Ava and Cocoa
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 1, 2013, at 1:24 PM, rhonda cruz <rhondaprincess at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> the staff at pilot are good.
>>>>>> maybe if we got more grads from pilot they would change there 
>>>>>> minds, about going to a nfb convention, but i will never know, if 
>>>>>> i just ask.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jul 1, 2013, at 7:04 AM, Star Gazer wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sounds like the trainer at Pilot wasn't briefed properly before 
>>>>>>> giving
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>> presentation.
>>>>>>> Agree with Marsha, the folks in charge at Pilot could have 
>>>>>>> calmed her down and used it as a learning opportunity.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>>>>>>> Marsha Drenth
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 3:40 PM
>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>>>> Users
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Update: Training Programs at NAGDU Meeting
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> marion,
>>>>>>> When did this happen? I am assuming before you took the presidency.
>>>>>>> Althought there has been those members around since those time,, 
>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> took the presidency, the NAGDU is certainly different from those 
>>>>>>> times
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> too.
>>>>>>> its unfortunate that Pilot feels that way, that they feel they 
>>>>>>> can not participate. I wonder if its graduates urged them to do 
>>>>>>> so, if they would. I do feel like that is a cop-out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marsha drenth
>>>>>>> Sent with my IPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2013, at 6:53 PM, "National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>> <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rhonda,
>>>>>>>> Pilot has not been to an NFB convention since I have been an 
>>>>>>>> officer. When I spoke with Jay Gray to invite him, he said 
>>>>>>>> Pilot would
>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>>> attend another convention because it was his opinion one of his 
>>>>>>>> trainers
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> embarrassed at a meeting. I don't remember the incident, but he 
>>>>>>>> said the trainer was asked about traffic checks and she said 
>>>>>>>> Pilot did not do
>>>>>>> traffic
>>>>>>>> checks. Apparently, the president at the time was very 
>>>>>>>> surprised and exclaimed, "You don't do traffic checks?" 
>>>>>>>> According to someone else that
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> there, this is how it happened and a rather strong discussion 
>>>>>>>> of the importance of traffic checks followed. I told Mr. Gray 
>>>>>>>> that I felt it
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> reasonable question and couldn't imagine not doing traffic 
>>>>>>>> checks while assuring him that, in spite of the fact that our 
>>>>>>>> members can be very assertive, I would never allow anyone to 
>>>>>>>> insult another nor treat anyone with disrespect or in an 
>>>>>>>> undignified manner. Pilot has still not chosen to attend our 
>>>>>>>> conventions, though!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>>>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>> for
>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jlperdue3%40gma
>>>>> il
>>>>> .com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/lkeeler%40comcast.
>>>> net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jawsgirl87%40gmail.
>>> com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/djrogers0628%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dlewis%40clovernoo
>> k.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40charte
>> r.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/pickrellrebecca%40
>> gmail.c
>> om
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon
>> .net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/wb2hww%40earthlink
>> .net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rhondaprincess%40g
>> mail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/singingmywayin%40gm
> ail.com
>

_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net