[nagdu] Handling difficult store owners

Thu Jul 25 12:16:48 UTC 2013

Andrew,
	I believe Ann offers some good guidance. From what you have said,
the issue may be a lack of understanding and a real interest in learning
more. I often share the adage, "It is better to educate than to litigate!"
Ann's guidance of sharing the relevant state & federal laws is a good direct
way of handling this. One that might be a little indirect might be to offer
a copy of those laws and add, "If you have any questions, I would be more
than happy to chat with you a bit more," while offering him your business
card. You may alsowant to refer him to the NAGDU Information & Advocacy
Hotline at 888-NAGDU411 (888-624-3841).  

Fraternally yours,
Marion Gwizdala
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ann Edie
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 1:41 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Handling difficult store owners

Hi, Andrew,

Welcome to the group.

I think you handled the access issue to the barbarshop very well.  But I
don't think you have to swallow your "ego" and your rights in order to
ensure a pleasant ongoing relationship with the barbar.

I do think it would be useful if you take a written copy of the relevant
parts of the ADA and State access laws with you next time you visit the shop
and show or give them to the proprietor for his inspection.  Then you might
want to explore with him, in a non-militant, conversational way, the
reasons, aside from just the fact that it violates his policy about pets in
his shop, he feels uncomfortable having your guide dog in the shop.  If it
is just that he wasn't aware of the ADA requirements that store owners
modify their policies to permit persons with disabilities to be accompanied
by their service animals to any place of public accommodation, or if he is
afraid that having a dog in his shop might violate some Health Department
regulation, then showing him the laws and explaining them to him should
solve the problem.  If the reason for his resistance is that he is afraid of
or is allergic to dogs, then you can suggest leaving the dog in the waiting
area away from where he is working on your hair. If  he thinks that other
patrons may be afraid of or allergic to dogs and that having the dog there
will affect his business, then you can assure him that you will keep the dog
close to you and as far away from other customers as practical, and you can
also assure him that your dog is clean and that you will keep him in control
at all times and that you really don't want other people interacting with
your guide dog in any case.  I can't think of any other reason why he
doesn't want the dog in his shop, but I'm confident that, with your lawyerly
arguing skills, you can find similar suggestions for ways to sensibly
overcome his objections.

Of course, as you said, you aren't under any obligation to discuss his
reservations or to make any accommodations to them.  But in the interest of
maintaining a good relationship for mutual benefit, it does seem preferable
to attempt a meeting of the minds.  I presume that the proprietor has
sufficient facility with English so that the above suggested discussion is
possible and so that he will understand both your firm assertion of your
right to be accompanied by your service dog and your willingness to be
flexible within the exercise of that right.

As to whether to keep the dog by your side throughout or to leave him in the
waiting area, for me this would depend on several things:  I wouldn't
particularly want my dog lying on the floor where my own and perhaps other
persons' hair is being deposited, so I might lean toward leaving the dog on
a down-stay in the waiting area.  But this would depend on whether or not
the dog can be trusted to stay where I have put him, even in the face of
distractions from other people, and also on whether there is a good place,
out of the flow of traffic, where I can leave him.  My experience with
hair-cutting has been that, first of all, I usually have to transfer to at
least two locations--one to have my hair washed, and a second for the actual
haircut, and sometimes a third chair for hair drying and another for the
final combing--so I think I would prefer to just leave the dog on tie-down
in the waiting area rather than going through the relocation process each
time I move.  Besides, the hair-cutter usually turns the chair this way and
that during the haircut, and the leash might get twisted around the chair or
might pose a tripping hazard for the barbar.  And if I place my guide far
enough away from my chair to be clear of the falling hair and out from under
the barber's feet, then he may be encroaching on the space around another
chair where a customer and barbar may be present (if there is more than one
barbar in the shop), so I might as well leave the dog in the waiting area
where he can stay clean and out of the way.  But, as stated above, if the
barbar is worried that other patrons might be afraid of or allergic to the
dog, then I would find ways to keep the dog within arm's reach and on lead
with me during the haircut.

Those are my thoughts on the matter at present.  I don't think I would
consider leaving the dog at home, just as a matter of principle, as it would
set a bad precedent.  We didn't fight for years for the right to travel
freely accompanied by our service animals, only to toss the right away at
the slightest hint that someone might not feel comfortable with our choice
of mobility tool.  My advice is "Persist politely, but do persist!"

Best,
Ann

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Webb
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 1:16 PM
To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nagdu] Handling difficult store owners

Hello all,

I've been a member of this list for all of about the last 15 minutes, so
it's good to be with you all.  I'd like to ask some advice on a topic that
I'm sure comes up very frequently.  I'm a pretty new guide dog user and so
there are some situations on which I'm still sort of feeling my way and
appreciate hearing thoughts from more experienced handlers.

I recently visited for the first time a store where the proprietor was
plainly not very happy about my having brought my dog inside.  Specifically,
it was a barber shop.  However, the point I'd like to emphasize is that,
unlike with a couple other similar encounters I've had, this gentleman was
absolutely kind, respectful, and courteous to me in every other regard.  He
gave me a warm greeting, made small talk, made sure he knew what I was
looking for in a haircut, etc.  He just wasn't comfortable having the dog
inside the shop.  He said that ordinarily the shop has a "no dogs" policy,
but that for me, "he would make an exception."  (Yes, I know, kind of
patronizing, but I needed to get my hair cut.)  When we were done, he asked
if next time I could please tie up the dog to a post that is right outside
the shop's front door.  I explained to him in a respectful tone, that this
was a service animal and as such enjoyed a special status, and that by law
the shop owner could not refuse admission to the dog or ask me to keep him
outside, not to mention the fact that I take care to ensure that the dog is
clean, well-groomed, and well-behaved.  After I explained this, especially
the part about the applicable laws, the gentleman just sort of went silent,
we left it at that, I wished him a good day and the dog and I were on our
way.    

Bottom line: This was a nice and seemingly decent fellow, who probably
sincerely believed that he was acting within his rights as the store owner,
and simply doesn't know the relevant law.  He listened to what I told him
about the law, but I don't think he believed me.

I wonder how people would suggest that I handle this matter going forward?
This barber shop is far and away the most convenient one for me to visit,
and what's more they give good haircuts at a reasonable price.  In other
words, all other things being equal, I'd prefer to keep going there, and it
would be an inconvenience for me not to.  What's more, it's a short enough
walk from my house that I can feasibly get there using just my cane and park
the dog at home (in most cases).

What's giving me pause here is that the shop owner was nice, just ignorant.
If he were a jerk, it would all be different.  I can deal with a jerk, and
have done so.  I'd have no problem suing, if need be.  (I'm actually an
attorney.)  But in this case, since the shop is right in my neighborhood and
I pass by it every day, since I'd prefer to keep going there for haircuts,
and since the owner was an absolutely nice guy aside from not wanting the
dog in the store, I feel sort of conflicted.  I wonder if I should just
check my ego (and my rights), and go there in futre without the dog?  Or
should I return there next time with the dog, armed with a copy of the
relevant statute in hand, and show it to the gentleman, in the interest of
educating him (and consequently probably taking the pleasure out of that and
all future visits)?  Perhaps there are no right or wrong answers here per
se, but I'm just interested to hear people's thoughts.

Also, when I went to sit in the barber's chair, I left my dog tied down to a
seat in the waiting area (perhaps 20 feet away).  Can anyone tell me if
legally this was permissible, or do I need to have him close at hand near
the barber chair?

Thanks in advance for all thoughts and perspectives.

Regards,

Andrew 

_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/annedie%40nycap.rr.com

_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net