[nagdu] close call

Sun Jul 28 01:53:09 UTC 2013

I agree with Julie.  We have to be responsible for our own dogs.
That's part of having a dog.

As for dogs at convention, people need to be reminded to hold on to
their dogs more than they would at home.  When I'm at school, I can
drop Brie's leash, walk across the hall, and spend a significant
amount of time at the water cooler or chatting with friends.  She is
fine and doesn't try anything.  But we cannot try those kinds of
things at convention.  The dog's leash should be attached, and this is
very easy to forget, especially when things are crowded and we are
busy.

On 7/27/13, Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net> wrote:
> Hi Julie.
> I agree.  I think a lot of people do, perhaps especially TSE graduates,
> since we own our dogs from the minute we graduate, and are expected to be
> responsible for them.
>
> And, to your other point, a friend's dog was attacked a day or two after
> they finished training, and, after that, her dog became increasingly
> suspicious of other dogs, and finally had to be retired.  No one could have
>
> predicted it.  Stuff happens.
> Tracy
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2013 8:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] close call
>
>
>> Dog's change over time, just like people do.  That dog could have been the
>>
>> model citizen of guide dogs at graduation.  There's no way to predict the
>>
>> future.
>>
>> Dog attacks from random dogs on the street are a huge, huge contributor to
>>
>> a change in personality towards other dogs.  You could start with a
>> lovely, well behaved and sociable dog.  Then have three or four nasty
>> encounters with ill behaved beasts and now your lovely guide learns to be
>>
>> proactive. No more standing around to see if other dogs are nice or safe.
>>
>> Now she'll make it well known that nobody is going to mess with her.
>>
>> How would the school know something like this?  How would they be able to
>>
>> predict it?  How could they prevent it?  How could they know better?
>>
>> Also why shouldn't the handler know better and do the right thing?
>>
>> We talk a lot here about wanting ownership, wanting to be treated like
>> responsible adults, wanting equal treatment and the like.  In my opinion
>> that means we have to step up to the plate and start acting responsibly.
>> That means all the time, even when it's unpleasant or hard.  I would
>> really like to see a shift in thinking to viewing the guide dog schools as
>>
>> a resource, a place where people can go for support, ideas, or help with a
>>
>> particular working situation. We have to stop relying on them to be the
>> dog police.
>>
>> When you stop being responsible, you give up a piece of your independence.
>>
>> Letting others make decisions for you is letting them have power over you.
>>
>> Being an adult means you have to be responsible for your actions and those
>>
>> of your dog, all the time, every day, even when it's embarrassing or hard
>>
>> or heart wrenching.  Kids have the benefit of adults to take care of them,
>>
>> to take care of the hard decisions and to protect them.  Adults do not.
>> We have to start acting like adults if we want to be treated like adults.
>>
>> JMO
>> Julie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Howard J. Levine
>> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2013 7:19 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] close call
>>
>> Both are the handler and the school, but school should no better and do
>> the
>> right thing and dog should had never made through the program.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 7:52 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] close call
>>
>> Just out of curiosity, why should it be the school that removes the dog
>> from
>> being a guide?  I'm wondering why the handler shouldn't be the one
>> responsible?
>>
>> Julie
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Howard J. Levine
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 6:43 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] close call
>>
>> That is not a guide dog and any guide dog would bite person that school
>> must
>> take that dog out of service atwonce.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tina Thomas
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 11:34 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Cc: judotina48kg at gmail.com
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] close call
>>
>> Hello Nicole and all- Any dog can become aggressive if not trained and or
>> handled properly. In the case of the pit bull, they have been mistreated
>> and
>> mishandled by unskrupleless   handlers who have use the breed  for
>> monetary
>> gain (dog fights). Which is unacceptable  and abusive. Also, there have
>> been
>> a ccounts of other breeds such as Labradors, golden retrievers who have
>> attacked for no reason. When I was at convention there were several
>> incidences of a dog either attacking another dog and or biting a person.
>> One
>> incident took place in the lobby of the hotel, where the handler did not
>> have hold of the leach and another dog handler was passing by and the dog
>> who was lying down while the handler was talking got up and lunged at the
>> other dog while barking. Another incident was when I was coming out of an
>> elevator and another dog attacked my dog and she had to defend herself.
>> However, the worst incident took place when a woman was checking in to
>> her
>> room and she did not have her dog properly secured and as a young woman
>> was
>> passing by, the dog jumped over the luggage  and preceded to bite the
>> young
>> woman twice as well as bite another dog. I think we really need to be
>> careful not to make assumptions and stereotypes, because all it does is
>> cause prejudice and misunderstandings.
>> Tina and the girls
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole
>> Torcolini
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:06 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] close call
>>
>> Some pit bulls are wonderful lovely dogs, most are, in fact...including
>> the
>> sweet boy who has his head on my foot right now. Breed specific
>> legislation
>> is such a mess. Why not work on addressing the lack of training instead
>> of
>> banning a wonderful breed.
>>
>> For the reasons stated at this website:
>> http://www.dogsbite.org/dangerous-dogs-pit-bull-faq.php.
>>
>> It sounds like the dogs were on leashes. If the individuals are homeless,
>>
>> at
>> least they found a way to contain their dogs, even if they couldn't afford
>>
>> a
>> traditional leash.
>>
>> I am not trying to stereotype, but it is probably more likely that
>> someone
>> who is homeless has a pit-bull for protection than for a pet. Also, from
>> what I read on the above website, it sounds like the rope leash would not
>> have done much good had the pit bulls decided to try to run away from
>> their
>> owners.
>>
>> Maybe what needs to happen is breed specific legislation, but those who
>> have
>> pit bulls who are well trained can somehow get them exempt.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Meghan Whalen
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:32 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] close call
>>
>> Some pitbulls are wonderful lovely dogs, most are, in fact...including
>> the
>> sweet boy who has his head on my foot right now. Breed specific
>> legislation
>> is such a mess. Why not work on addressing the lack of training instead
>> of
>> banning a wonderful breed.
>>
>> It sounds like the dogs were on leashes. If the individuals are homeless,
>>
>> at
>> least they found a way to contain their dogs, even if they couldn't afford
>>
>> a
>> traditional leash.
>>
>> It sounds like there was a fence between you guys, regardless what
>> happened.
>>
>> I'm glad you are okay.
>>
>> Meghan
>> On 7/23/2013 4:16 AM, Criminal Justice Major Extraordinaire wrote:
>>> hi, all,
>>> Sub says it all.
>>> A couple of hours ago while I was parking Odie in the north yard, five
>> people started walking past us.
>>> Two individuals happened to have pit bulls, a breed which is banned in
>>> the
>> city and county of Denver.
>>> Although the dogs were leashed, it wasn't a proper one as my friend
>>> Dolly
>> described that it was more of a rope type leash.
>>> Luckily, no one was hurt, but I found it disturbing that those
>>> individuals
>> knowing that the pit bull breed is banned would sneak them into the
>> county.
>>> The group was obviously homeless or just street individuals.
>>> Dolly told me that as soon as she saw the pit bulls, she immediately
>>> went
>> back up the stairs in the lobby.
>>> My partner Odie did something which I didn't expect.
>>> He knew those dogs weren't nice, so figured for mine and his safety,
>>> he
>> pulled me over to the other side of the yard.
>>> During the incident, one of our residents happened to be outside on
>>> the
>> sidewalk with her walker and her small chihuhua, Baby.
>>> She was very lucky that our building security guard as out there.
>>> Although I did notify Denver police about the illegal dogs, I'll still
>> have to contact Animal Control, giving that this was the second time
>> those
>> two dogs were walked by our apartment complex.
>>> Dolly told me she saw them yesterday during lunch hour as well.
>>> Am glad the iron fence was in between the banned pit bulls, Odie and I.
>>> Dolly told me they were smaller than Odie was, but she was concerned
>>> for
>> her dog, Easter's safety.
>>> She did mention that one of her dogs was a pit bull, but properly
>>> trained
>> to be a well-mannered four-legged furry kid.
>>> I just took Odie out a few minutes ago, and we definitely took the
>>> garage
>> to the south stairwell on up the stairs and out into the south yard
>> instead.
>>> I wasn't chancing going out to the north yard, given that there's no
>> security guards right now.
>>> God was watching over Odie and I along with Dale.
>>> bibi and son Odie
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-- 
Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16