[nagdu] Guide dog school that offers guide dogs tochildren between the ages of 11 & 17 years old.

Tue Jun 4 02:23:44 UTC 2013

Perhaps someone needs to do some more research about this and report it back
to the list before we continue this conversation because I feel that we're
not really doing anything besides speculating. I don't know how it works,
but I am sure that there is some sort of consent that the parent has to
give. Maybe there are papers for the parents to sign; I don't know. I most
certainly think, though, that a child is not just going to go off and get a
dog without permission from his/her parents. Most parents would have already
resolved the problems you mentioned (school, house work) before letting
their child get a guide dog as such things are often considered
responsibilities.
I don't know how it works for younger children, but, when I received my
guide dog at 17, I signed all of the papers. Even though my parents did not
put their names on that paper, they understood the same as me what the rules
were, including not letting the dog run in open spaces off leash.

Nicole 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Star Gazer
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 7:51 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dog school that offers guide dogs tochildren
between the ages of 11 & 17 years old.

I have a problem with some of this. 
First, kids are dependent on their parents, economically and otherwise. 
How far does "caring for a pet dog" go? What if the child has the skill set,
but the parents won't let him or her out of the house to walk the dog? What
if the kid knows the dog needs a different quality of food but the parents
refuse to buy it? What if the dog needs medical care, and the parents
disagree? 
How would it be determined if a child can care for a pet dog? 
Also, pet dogs and guides are different. If a pet dog gets killed because
somebody left a gate open, everybody cries. If a guide dog gets killed
because somebody left the gate open, everybody cries, and then you have to
figure out the finantial and other logestics of replacing that dog. 
Would the contract signed by a school and a minor getting a pet dog be with
the minor or with the parents? Minors can't sign contracts, so how would
this work? 
If the dog isn't "working out" how will it be determined where the problem
lies? Maybe it's a bad match. Maybe it's because the child wasn't ready.
Maybe it's because parents feel that the child needs to spend his or her
time doing other things, schoolwork, taking care of grandma or a younger
sibling, and the child doesn't have the hours in the day to devote to the
dog? 
Kids, even teenagers have very little control over their daily lives.
Parents know their kids, and sometimes priorities need to be readjusted.
School is far more important now then it was even 30 years ago. 
Lastly, how will it be perceived if the child decides he or she no longer
wants the dog? People are allowed to change their minds. When businesses do
it, we call it "making a sound business decition". When people do it, we
call it "breaking a commitment". Breaking a commitment is hard as an adult,
even when you know you need to. How will a child handle it? 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole Torcolini
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 11:28 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dog school that offers guide dogs to children
between the ages of 11 & 17 years old.

First, let me say that I know someone who received a dog at a young  age (I
cannot remember the exact age) from a Canadian organization, probably the
one mentioned in this article. I cannot remember the whole story, but I
think that, eventually, there was some sort of problem with the dog, but it
was the dog, and not the person. So, although I agree that the cases where
getting a guide dog at a young age may be few, they do exist.

In general I think that it could probably be said that, as you lower the
age, the number of cases were getting a guide dog works out well gets lower
and lower. I agree that eleven is too low, but I also think that sixteen is
also a little to high. I think that people should at least be able to be
evaluated for a guide dog around thirteen or fourteen. Sometimes, there can
be more things that need to be worked out before a person can get a dog than
the person thought, and having a year or two to work those out would be
nice.

I agree that having a dog around other people, especially kids, might be
hard for a child. Most children are still in elementary school at age
eleven, and elementary schools usually have at least first graders if not
kindergarteners.

The whole thing about people talking about only the dog I think is not
always a problem. JMHO, if someone wants to talk just about my dog and
nothing else, then I don't want to talk to them. I have met very few people
who insisted on talking about nothing but the dog, and, for most of those
people, I have gotten it through to them that the dog is not the main
concern at the moment and that there are other things that need to be done.
Even for those people who start by talking about the dog, they do not seem
to mind when I change the subject; they sometimes change it themselves.
Would this be the same for a child? I really cannot say. I think that
younger children may want to stick more to the topic of dogs, but I think
that teenagers would not so much.

I definitely agree that good O&M skills are a must before getting a guide
dog. That does not just include knowing how to use a cane but also knowing
where you are and which direction you are pointing relative to your
surroundings. I do see how a child might try to avoid using a cane just
because having a dog is cooler. No, I don't necessarily like my cane, but
that has nothing to do with the fact that the cane means that I am blind.

I don't really know what to say about things not working out with the
family. I think that there would need to be some kind of information for the
family, and some way for the representatives from the guide dog school to
talk to the child about how things are going without parents skewing the
information. Sometimes, when I have to keep reminding people about things
about my guide dog, I joke about sending them to the guide dog training just
so that they can learn the rules.

I do agree that responsibility for the dog can be a problem, but I think
that it should be considered on a case by case basis. Perhaps a strongly
recommended prerequisite for a child getting a guide dog is that the child
has to be able to take care of a family pet almost independently before
getting a guide dog. When I was eleven, my family got a pet dog, and,
although I did not do everything, I could do most of the tasks for taking
care of her on my own. Had push come to shove, I would have found a way to
do the other tasks. But my parents have always encouraged my independence,
so I certainly see where it could be more of a problem of parents wanting to
help too much. Perhaps there could be some sort of paperwork for the parents
as well saying that the dog is the responsibility of the child and the
parents are not supposed to help too much. I do definitely agree that this
is important for a good working relation with the dog, especially in the
first few months.

I agree that it needs to be the choice of the child to get a guide dog. It
most certainly was me, not my parents, who decided that I would get a guide
dog. They most certainly were not against it, but it was my decision, and
they have always been mostly supportive of letting make my own personal
choices.

I also agree that having a child get a guide dog because the child is
supposedly safer is not a valid reason for a child to get a guide dog,
especially if the parents expect the dog to protect the child.

I do agree that some people are probably not mature enough at thirteen or
fourteen to get a guide dog, but I am sure that some do exist. Again, it is
something that needs to be considered differently for each situation.

It is not *horrible* to wait till you are sixteen, but I certainly would
have enjoyed a guide dog a little sooner than I got one. I find travel that
much easier and more enjoyable with a dog rather than a cane.

Perhaps one way of trying to make sure that the dog was actually used as a
guide dog and did not just become a pet would be to have stricter vision
requirements for younger children as I feel that younger children are more
likely to use (or try to use) any remaining vision that they have. This gets
back to that a person needs to have accepted his/her blindness before
getting a guide dog.

I also don't like that people think that children can be more independent
just because they have a guide dog. There is nothing that keeps a parent
from reaching over and holding on to his/her child if the child has a dog
any more than if the child has a cane. I am an adult, and people still try
to hold onto and direct me when I am using my dog.

Returning to the point about children having to tell people, including
people older than him/her, not to pet the dog, I can definitely tell where
this would be a problem. However, if it is junior high and not elementary
school, I would think that the school staff could come to understand the
rules, even if it had to come from someone other than the child, such as a
rep from the guide dog school.

As a closing case, I will say that, although I reference my experiences in
this email, my experiences certainly are not those of every blind child.

Nicole

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Deanna Lewis
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 5:05 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
Users(nagdu at nfbnet.org)
Subject: [nagdu] Guide dog school that offers guide dogs to children between
the ages of 11 & 17 years old.

What do you all think about this...
Deanna and Pascal

MIRA - The only organization in the United States dedicated to providing
guide dogs to blind children and youth between the ages of 11-17.

MIRA: from the Spanish "look", "to have one's sights set on", was the
nickname of a favorite guide dog trained by Eric St. Pierre, founder of MIRA
Canada. MIRA Foundation USA takes its name from its collaboration with MIRA
Canada, a nonprofit organization founded in 1981 upon the belief that all
individuals, regardless of their physical challenges, should be able to set
their sights on the same goals as those people born without handicaps.

Today, MIRA Canada is recognized as a global leader in the breeding,
selection, and training of guide and service dogs. MIRA USA was created in

2008 as a legally separate entity, but with close ties to MIRA Canada, where
our dogs are currently trained.

Our mission is to offer blind children in the United States between the ages
of 11-17 the opportunity to receive guide dogs free of charge, to provide
targeted educational outreach to promote public awareness, and, as we
continue to grow, to offer support services to the adult population of blind
and their families.

It is our experience that blind children, for the most part, are highly
adaptive, fiercely determined, and seek to have many of the same
opportunities as their sighted peers. Although a cane provides an adequate
degree of mobility for the blind and severely visually impaired, there
remain some serious limitations. For example, it is impossible to navigate
with a cane when there is no tactical information such as what is provided
by sidewalks. A child living in a rural area is severely challenged by this
restriction.

Furthermore, a cane tends to be isolating, whereas a dog provides a social
bridge to the sighted community. Not only are dogs social creatures, they
also provide stability and a level of protection through their visual
awareness training that a cane could never replicate.

Finally, a guide dog provides a young blind person with a greater level of
self-reliance at an early age. Although a very young student is not going to
be out on the streets alone with their dog, having the ability to navigate
without holding a parent's hand is crucial to developing maturity and
confidence. The student's freedom and mobility are especially enhanced in
the school environment with the assistance of a guide dog. Although there is
no cure for blindness, there can be hope, and we at MIRA witness it every
day through the service of a MIRA guide dog.

http://www.mirausa.org/

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