[nagdu] How long is "successful"

Fri Jun 7 17:19:12 UTC 2013

I think we're mixing up personal success with statistical success.  I'd 
agree that, on a personal level, getting your dog to do what you want with a 
minimum of effort, and being safe together, constitutes success.  But how do 
you measure that, if you want broad statistics?  The only way I can think of 
is to see how long the team stays together.  There will be outliers--people 
who retired a dog young because of an attack, for instance, but it's the 
only way I can figure to measure what I want to measure. If someone has a 
better idea, I'd love to hear it.
Now, maybe you don't care.  You're happy with your dog and your school, and 
that's all that counts.  I can dig that.  But I'd also like some level of 
assurance that, when I go to class, I have the best chance of getting a dog 
I can work with for a long time.  Right now, all a person can do is talk to 
other people from their school of choice and see how they've done.  I just 
wonder if there isn't some more objective measure that could be added into 
the mix, to give the prospective student another way to compare schools, and 
to show schools if their training is working as well as they would like. 
After all, the hospital I work for analyzes data on bad outcomes, so we can 
do better.
Tracy
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] How long is "successful"


> Well, the point is that in my neighborhood, I know where those small curbs 
> are at. She does stop at the big ones and whenever there are obstacles in 
> the way. But, for me, the little ones where I live are not that important 
> so I don't get on Holly to do them. I could have but its really not that 
> important. Some folks might not consider that successful but, i don't 
> really mind. I do  care if obstacles are there and if she didn't stop for 
> them! Some folks will tolerate there dogs eating things they shouldn't or 
> sniffing other folks for example. What I consider successful is that if I 
> want Holly to do something, I can get her to do it with a minimum of fuss. 
> If I want her to stop at those little curbs, she will! And, if we are 
> somewhere that I don't know, she will anyway. I guess success for me is 
> knowing what your dog will do when you do something and what your dog 
> knows you will do! And, if your dog listens to your commands and you 
> listen to the dog.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Star Gazer" <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 11:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] How long is "successful"
>
>
>> Larry,
>> Your post about your dog not stopping at curbs as a good example of how
>> difficult this is to deal with.
>> Reading your post, I was thinking "I couldn't deal with that behavior". Y
>> Ou feel differently. You love your dog. You and she have a history. I 
>> don't
>> know your dog, and have no history with her.
>> I'm wondering if the statistics used on marriage and divorce rates would
>> serve as a good model?
>> We all know people who have been married for 60 years and are miserable.
>> Yet, for all kinds of reasons they stay married.
>> Likewise, we all know marriages that ended quickly for any number of
>> reasons.
>> And as with dogs, we all have a friend where we think "How does she put 
>> up
>> with *that*".
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry D. 
>> Keeler
>> Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 11:19 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] How long is "successful"
>>
>> Aggreed! My point is that too many variables exist to have a perfect 
>> team.
>> You have to use some kind of continuum scale to measure. And, what 
>> success
>> if for one is not the same as it is for another. If you use saftey as 
>> you're
>> standard most folks I know at least have that covered.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Margo and Arrow" <margo.downey at verizon.net>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 10:53 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] How long is "successful"
>>
>>
>>> Well, I'd say that even if a team works for one month and does well,
>>> they're successful.  I say this because after one gets home, things
>>> could happen.
>>> Dogs get sick, humans get sick, dogs die, humans die, circumstances
>>> change, etc., etc., etc.
>>>
>>> I just don't think we can put too much of a figure on it.  I figure,
>>> though, one can begin to tell how successful a team is after they get
>>> home and work a bit.  One can also tell during class if a team might
>>> be successful or not.
>>>
>>> Margoa nd Arrow
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy
>>> Carcione
>>> Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 8:04 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: [nagdu] How long is "successful"
>>>
>>> Darla asked how long a team has to be out to be "successful".  I'd say
>>> at least 2 years, just to put a number on it.  Or possibly 3; I could
>>> argue either way.
>>> I'd be real curious to see numbers from schools of teams graduated,
>>> and partnerships that lasted 3 years or more. I think that should be a
>>> pretty good indicator as to how well the school is doing. I mean, if
>>> school X put out 500 teams, and 300 of them stayed together, that's
>>> only a 60% success rate, and not so good.  But if 400 of them worked 3
>>> years or more, that's 80% success, which is pretty good.
>>> Tracy
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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