[nagdu] The Differences in Dogs and Canes

rhonda cruz rhondaprincess at gmail.com
Tue Jun 25 19:52:22 UTC 2013 

 hello ccarol, wellcome to the group,
 i'm rhonda, and i have my first guide dog. i have trained my dog to fallow the line in the stores,
 and she fallows well.
 and i keep her comtral.
 of her. the way,
 i know how.
 i feel the  leash,
 and i keep my dog focused.


On Jun 25, 2013, at 12:10 PM, Star Gazer wrote:

> Carol, it is doubtful the dog users you know cut in line just to piss you off, though some may be. Using a dog is very different then using a cane because you have to be aware of what the dog is doing. So for example you are at the movies. You want to get in line but there isn't just one. You go to the line you want and the movie you want to see is popular. Your dog stops and you reach your hand out only to find an old dude petting your dog. Or the line isn't a strait line kids are slightly separated from their folks so your dog isn't sure where the end of the line is. Is it behind the teenager playing with her phone or the mom who may or may not be responsible for the three kids milling around her. You will also sometimes get movie theater staff that want to help you and your dog in ways they won't when you have a cane. All this can impact the line experience. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jun 25, 2013, at 12:53 PM, Carol Osmar <osmarc at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks for all your responses.
>> 
>> So, I believe what all of you are saying is,  it is one of many learning processes that is taught but a skill that not everyone chooses to practice.  Although you don't have a cane that will tap the heel of the last person in line, if you are alert in your surroundings you can generally  tell when you are at the back of a group of people.  Even with a cane I am not 100 percent accurate.
>> You have made me feel better about this issue.
>> 
>> Carol
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Larry D.  Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 22:50:54 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Differences in Dogs and Canes
>> 
>> Mike, I've seen folks do that with canes as well.  Unfortunately, rude folks
>> come in all shapes and sizes.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Michael Hingson" <Mike at michaelhingson.com
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 9:03 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Differences in Dogs and Canes
>> 
>> 
>> Carol,
>> 
>> There is no excuse for rudeness anywhere.  If guide dog users plow through
>> people they are being inconsiderate.
>> 
>> Dogs do look for ways around obstacles, and people can be obstacles.  It is
>> up to us as guide dog users to watch our dogs' behaviors to make sure they
>> are not helping us cut in lines.  We are still in charge and need to manage
>> our guides.
>> 
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> 
>> Michael Hingson
>> 
>> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
>> "Speaking with Vision"
>> Michael Hingson, President
>> (415) 827-4084
>> info at michaelhingson.com
>> To order Michael Hingson's new book, Thunder Dog, and check on Michael
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>> 
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>> animal artist, Ron Burns, please visit http://www.ronburns.com/roselle
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carol Osmar
>> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 05:43 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Differences in Dogs and Canes
>> 
>> Hello All, I am new to the list, and am looking forward to learning from
>> your discussions.  I am in my 60S and recently retired.  I have been a cane
>> user all my life, but just recently applied for a guide dog, so, I have a
>> lot to learn.
>> 
>> Although I haven't had a dog, I have been around many people with guide
>> dogs, and I have noticed on many occasions, a blind person with a dog will
>> plow his way through a crowd to get to the head of the line.  I feel this is
>> rude.  My question is, Do the schools address the issue of curtesy to others
>> when using a dog?
>> 
>> I have never been in New York City,   so I don't know what it is
>> like traveling there as a blind person.  Perhaps you would be trampled if
>> you are not aggressive there.
>> 
>> Carol  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org Date sent: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 11:05:00 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Differences in Dogs and Canes
>> 
>> I think a dog is much better for moving easily through a crowd.
>> I know
>> plenty of people use canes in New York City, but I imagine they have to slow
>> way down when things get crowded, or whack a lot of ankles.
>> Ben just
>> slides on through, finding spaces between people.  Ben is one of those
>> "pushy urban dogs".  Crowds are something of a specialty with him, and I
>> really appreciate that.
>> Tracy
>> 
>> Great point Nicole as even the best cane user would not find such an
>> obstacle.
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole
>> Torcolini
>> Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 2:08 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: [nagdu] The Differences in Dogs and Canes
>> 
>> Okay, yes, I know that this one has gone round and round before, but I had
>> something happen today that made me just have to bring it up one more  time.
>> There is the way of thinking that says that the good cane user should be
>> able to travel as quickly and as safely with a cane as with a dog.
>> However,
>> unless you wear a full body shield, I just don't think that that is true.
>> For reasons that I will not discuss here, I was out walking today with my
>> cane rather than Lexia.  I was traversing a route that I have taken
>> numerous  times with Lexia.  Lexia usually stays a tiny bit from the edge of
>> the side  walk.  However, as I was using my cane rather than Lexia, I was
>> trailing  the  edge.  There is a staircase that comes down from a building
>> that has a  railing that sticks out farther than the bottom step.  With
>> Lexia, this had  never before posed a problem as she had cleared it as an
>> obstacle.
>> However,
>> I had no way of detecting it without her; it was at hip level.
>> As a
>> result,
>> I ran right into it.  I was not hurt or anything, but it just goes to show
>> that there are those things that a guide dog, at least a well trained one,
>> usually detects that a cane cannot.
>> 
>> Nicole
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