[nagdu] The Differences in Dogs and Canes

Tracy Carcione carcione at access.net
Fri Jun 28 14:11:21 UTC 2013 

Wow, imagine that, people responding when you ask them a question!  Lines in 
New York seem to be made mostly of zombies, who don't say anything.  Oh 
well, perhaps they don't understand English.
Tracy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Osmarc" <osmarc at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Differences in Dogs and Canes


> Wow, imagine that, a little common sense works. LOL
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 28, 2013, at 9:29 AM, "Danielle A. Creapeau" <dcreapeau at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
>> I don't use my dog to find the end of a line and I don't use a cane
>> either. about 100% of the time, I use my mouth. You'd be surprised how
>> many people will actually thank you for not just barging in on their
>> spot in line. Most of the time, if the person I've asked isn't at the
>> end of the line, they call to the end and say something like "hey,
>> someone call her towards the end of the line." It's as simple as that
>> for me. :)
>>
>> On 6/28/13, Julie J. <julielj at neb.rr.com> wrote:
>>> Yes, it's fine to use a cane to check out something the dog is showing 
>>> you
>>> and you can't figure it out.  Using a cane on sidewalkless routes to 
>>> check
>>> your proximity to the edge is common.  Also using a cane to pattern a 
>>> dog to
>>>
>>> a specific turn, like the fourth sidewalk after the mailbox, is fairly
>>> common.
>>>
>>> In some other countries a shorter white cane and the dog are used
>>> simultaneously all the time.  Here, in the U.S., the more common 
>>> practice is
>>>
>>> to get out a folding cane when it is needed and then to return to the 
>>> dog.
>>>
>>> I have owner trained my guides, so they are all accustomed to me using a
>>> cane because I have to early in the process.  However if a dog isn't 
>>> used to
>>>
>>> the handler using a cane, it can cause a bit of confusion at first.  I 
>>> think
>>>
>>> most of the programs are incorporating the cane into the training 
>>> though.
>>>
>>> HTH
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Carol Osmar
>>> Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 8:54 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] [nard] The Differences in Dogs and Canes
>>>
>>> As a potential dog user, I have a question.  Is it ever
>>> recommended to use a cane while with your dog to locate the
>>> things you mentioned, or would that somehow undermine the
>>> trusting partnership you have with your dog?
>>>
>>> Carol
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 07:30:32 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] [nard] The Differences in Dogs and Canes
>>>
>>> There are mobility things a cane can accomplish more easily than
>>> a dog.
>>> Finding the fourth sidewalk after the mailbox is tough with a
>>> dog, but a
>>> breeze with a cane.  Finding the mailbox in the first place is
>>> easier with a
>>> cane.  Mingling in a crowd is easier with a cane.  Dogs just want
>>> to go
>>> around and will avoid taking you up to clusters of people.  As
>>> was mentioned
>>> earlier, finding and standing in line is tough with a dog.  Odd
>>> situations
>>> you haven't encountered before are easier with a cane, for
>>> example the weird
>>> steps to the curb and street that I described a few months ago.
>>> Any
>>> information from echolocation from the tap of the cane tip is
>>> virtually
>>> nonexistent with a dog.  Getting information about your immediate
>>> surroundings, like am I walking past a flower bed or a giant mud
>>> puddle, is
>>> easier with a cane.  Knowing what surface you are about to step
>>> onto before
>>> taking that first step is way easier with a cane.  Ever take a
>>> step onto a
>>> brick road early on a fall morning after a frost?  It is slick
>>> and a dog
>>> can't see any ice.
>>>
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Raven Tolliver
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 10:56 PM
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Differences in Dogs and Canes
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> I do not view the cane or cane users negatively.  I would never
>>> say
>>> that I am better than cane users as a collective because I뭢 sure
>>> there are people who travel more efficiently with their cane than
>>> I do
>>> with my dog.  But apart from handlers/users, guide dogs simply do
>>> more
>>> than canes do.  That is a fact, not an opinion.
>>> It is a personal choice, just as what kind of dog, car, phone, or
>>> laptop people decide to obtain, or what school people decide to
>>> attend.  Everyone will make their ultimate decisions based on
>>> needs,
>>> wants, affordability, and ability to handle.
>>> However, I will stand firm that the guide dog is a better
>>> mobility aid
>>> because it has more capabilities and is more precise.  No one has
>>> disputed this fact with evidence or explanations.
>>> I understand there are advantages and disadvantages to
>>> everything, but
>>> that does not mean all things are on some neutral ground.  Some
>>> cars
>>> are better than others, some phones are better than others, and
>>> some
>>> foods are better than others, regardless of what people can
>>> afford,
>>> are willing to put up with, or are able to handle.
>>> I am sorry if anyone finds this offensive.  My intentions are
>>> simply to
>>> debate and share thought-provoking ideas, not to stir up trouble
>>> or
>>> cause some kind of divide.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Raven
>>>
>>> Original Message:
>>> From: "Star Gazer" <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,       the National Association of Guide
>>> Dog
>>>        Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Differences in Dogs and Canes
>>>
>>> You obviously view the cane as negative, your posts are full of
>>> negative
>>> language.  You yourself have said you hate the cane.  That
>>> baffles me, as the
>>> cane doesn't feel anything about you, one way or another.
>>> You are entitled to your opinion, just realize it is exactly
>>> that, your
>>> opinion.
>>>
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>>
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