[nagdu] [NAGDU] ownership RE: Guide Dog Schools
rhonda cruz
rhondaprincess at gmail.com
Sun Nov 3 16:40:35 UTC 2013
hello all, i feel that i would work with my scschool, and my dog. if i had any problams, but i haven't need too. work with my school,
i think we should work together, with the schools, and there grads,
but those are my own thoughts,
On Nov 2, 2013, at 2:53 PM, Mike wrote:
> And yet again here we are referring to the same single incident with only one person's perspective and now people are on the warpath against Fidelco.
> I've heard the same story but not from her perspective. What I heard was that she wanted to send the dog back. She called Fidelco and told them to come and pick the dog up. She had already made the decision to give the dog back and did not want to try to fix the issues. When Fidelco came to her house they set aside a few days to work with her and the dog. Despite these attempts to try to rectify the issues the woman repeatedly told them to take the dog back The trainer had no sooner boarded the plane than the woman decided it was a bad idea and tried to stop the wheels that were already in motion. Instead of working with Fidelco she turned to NAGDU and here we are. The story immediately got spun out of proportion and changed so that Fidelco seems like the bad guys. This woman is not going to admit any wrongdoing of her own even though that is how I heard the story.
> So there you go, two different sides of the very same story. This is the reason I feel like boundaries are being overstepped. There is not, by a longshot, enough evidence to be throwing such a major tantrum. The evidence is not clear by far.
>
> Personally I don't blame the companies for not wanting to work with this organization. NAGDU has a history and a tendency to bully and strong-arm organizations into doing what they want instead of trying to work with them peacefully. Most of the things that I have seen come from this organization all seem like threats. I am not a member of this organization. I joined this mailing list after hearing about you all and hearing some bad stories. I wanted to find out for myself if the stories were true or if it was just people who have their feelings hurt.
> I think the majority of the people on this list are very sensible and are fair in their opinions. Unfortunately, there are a few who tend to be overwhelming with their very one sided opinions and try to sway the group into believing how they do even though they can't back their beliefs up with real facts and evidence. Instead, they take one single-story and refer back to it over and over like it is pure fact.
> If I were running a guy dog school I would not work with an organization that would try to stab me in my back as soon as possible once they disagree with something that I am doing.
> Personally I feel like there are better ways to get things done than to run a smear campaign. I feel like I am reading emails from a political party during elections sometimes.
> I get much more value out of the emails that come from the individuals that belong to this group rather then the official emails from the leadership. I hesitate to believe anything that has an official title at the beginning or end of it because of this whole situation. It's sad, but things always change weather sooner or later.
>
>
>
> Mike
>
>> On Nov 2, 2013, at 12:28 PM, "National Association of Guide Dog Users" <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> Steve,
>> It is unfortunate you question my integrity. The information I have
>> received is as reliable as I can ascertain. One of the issues we face in
>> having others come forward results in the very agreement I have posted to
>> the list. If Fedelco has the right to repossess a guide dog "for any other
>> reason as determined by Fidelco in its sole and absolute discretion", how
>> confident can a consumer feel that objecting to a particular practice would
>> not result in retaliatory behavior to remove the dog? If viewed from an
>> objective point of view, do you agree that such a broad clause instills fear
>> rather than cooperation? I have urged Fidelco consumers to come forward and
>> they are unwilling to do so because of such fear.
>>
>> The woman in Texas that was the subject of my April 2011 Braille
>> Monitor article asked for help because her dog was exhibiting fear as the
>> result of an incident that occurred in her neighborhood. She asked Fidelco
>> for help on a number of occasions, both in writing and by phone. The result
>> was that a trainer came to her home on the pretense of helping her, advised
>> the consumer she wanted to work the dog near the place where it exhibited
>> fear and, rather than doing so, loaded the dog in the vehicle and drove
>> away. There was no indication from Fidelco that the dog would be
>> Repossessed.
>>
>> When I spoke with Eliot Russman, he refused to discuss the issue
>> with me, citing confidentiality concerns in spite of a signed release from
>> the consumer. When pressed for an explanation, he referred me to the
>> agreement allowing for Fidelco's sole and absolute discretion to repossess
>> the dog. We afforded Fidelco the opportunity to share their side of the
>> story through this signed release and they refused to do so. We also
>> afforded Fidelco the opportunity to write a counterpoint article for the
>> Braille Monitor and they refused to do that,too. What does their lack of
>> transparency and accountability communicate? If their action were warranted,
>> why would they not explain their actions instead of hiding behind false
>> concerns over confidentiality?
>>
>> I wish I could share more information about the numerous complaints
>> I received about Fidelco as the result of the article; however, I must
>> respect the confidentiality of those who have expressed their concerns.
>> Their fear is warranted and the agreement I have posted is objective
>> evidence of the reality of this fear. BTW, are you aware that Fidelco shut
>> down the consumer user group discussion list shortly after my article
>> appeared and was posted to this list, generating discussions of other such
>> behaviors and concerns on the premise that it infringed upon their trade
>> mark? The group had been active for several years with no concerns about
>> trade mark infringement; however, when consumers began expressing their
>> concerns and relating their negative experiences, it was squashed. And Mr.
>> Russman refers to himself as a Libertarian!
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion Gwizdala
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike
>> Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 10:24 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] [NAGDU] ownership RE: Guide Dog Schools
>>
>> I have tried many times, unsuccessfully, to get people to understand that
>> Fidelco does not do surprise visits. This is not their policy and never has
>> been. Tell me how it would make sense to pay one of your employees to travel
>> across the country to visit someone if you don't even know they are home?
>> Fidelco is a nonprofit! They could not afford to run a policy like this!
>> I know plenty of Fidelco clients and none of them have ever been surprised
>> by a visit. They have all known weeks in advance.
>>
>> This story of a surprise visit is always from the same person and it's
>> always the same people bringing it up. Then they try to point to it as fact
>> when there are more of us who know that it is completely false.
>> So instead of Marian telling us all the story one more time, how about the
>> person who claims this is true come out and say so? I would love to know the
>> real story but I don't want to hear it from somebody I don't feel like i can
>> trust. I want to hear it from the source.
>>
>>>> On Nov 2, 2013, at 8:45 AM, "Steve & Shannon Cook" <cookcafe at sc.rr.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> As far as Fidelco calling consumers when they are 5 minutes away is
>>> incorrect. Everytime a person from Fidelco comes to see me they have
>>> called a few weeks in advance to schedule an appointment. There are
>>> others here in my state with Fidelco dogs and they have done them the
>>> same way. You can believe it or not.
>>>
>>> Steve Cook
>>> Today I married my best friend.
>>> The one that I laugh with, live for, love.
>>> October 11, 2003
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of National
>>> Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 10:20 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] [NAGDU] ownership RE: Guide Dog Schools
>>>
>>> Tai,
>>> I would actually prefer to respond on-list, as I believe it is
>>> important for consumers to be aware of such things. I have had a few
>>> consumers from Leader tell me they were told that, if they did not
>>> trim down their dogs they would be removed, even when the vet asserted
>>> they were at a healthy weight. I also had a couple whose harnesses
>>> were repossessed by Leader because an official from the Florida
>>> Division of Blind Services complained that their dogs were acting out
>>> aggressively. This official told Leader that the couple had been
>>> expelled from the Orientation and Adjustment Center because of their
>>> dogs' aggressive behavior, an assertion that was untrue. Someone also
>>> filed a complaint with Leader that this couple were neglecting their
>>> dogs, something that was investigated by the local animal control. I
>>> spoke with the investigator from animal control and he said there was
>>> no evidence of abuse or neglect and, in fact, the dogs toenails were
>>> painted. In his words, "People who abuse or neglect their dogs do not
>>> paint their nails!" In spite of the fact that there was no objective
>>> evidence of abuse or neglect and that the assertions of the DBS
>>> official were untrue, Leader repossessed their harnesses. BTW, the DBS
>> official was reprimanded by a demotion.
>>>
>>> I recently had a Southeastern consumer tell me that a trainer made
>>> a surprise visit to him and, a day or two later called to tell him
>>> that, if he did not slim down his dog, they would repossess it. This,
>>> in spite of the ownership policy in place at SEGDI.
>>>
>>> Then, of course, there is the case I wrote about in the April 2011
>>> issue of the Braille Monitor in which Fidelco repossessed a woman's
>>> dog after she made several attempts to have a trainer help her with
>>> some fear issues her dog was experiencing. I have had a number of
>>> Fidelco consumers tell me about similar incidents, however, they were
>>> unwilling to pursue them for fear of retribution. I have also been
>>> told it is a common practice of Fidelco to call consumers and tell
>>> them they are five minutes away and want to inspect their dogs. If
>>> they object, they are reminded of the clauses in the agreement that
>>> state, "I agree to allow Fidelco's representatives to inspect the dog
>>> and to survey my care and treatment of the dog at any reasonable time"
>>> and that violation of the agreement is cause for repossession of the
>>> dog. I assume Fidelco believes five minutes notice is "reasonable"! In
>>> my opinion, the Fidelco agreement speaks for itself on this topic! As
>>> a law student, what would you say about such an ownership agreement? I
>>> would say that it is ownership in name only with none of the rights
>>> and privileges normally ascribed to ownership! I would also say that,
>>> if one were to challenge Fidelco's right to repossess a dog after
>>> transferring ownership, the agreement would not stand the test of a legal
>> challenge.
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tai Blas
>>> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 1:00 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] [NAGDU] ownership RE: Guide Dog Schools
>>>
>>> Marion,
>>>
>>> Which schools have been known to arbitrarily interfere and repossess dogs?
>>> If you'd prefer to respond to me off list, please do so at
>>> taiablas at gmail.com
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Tai
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of National
>>> Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 11:42 AM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] [NAGDU] ownership RE: Guide Dog Schools
>>>
>>> Mike,
>>>
>>> The issue is not one of "handing out pets" or "protecting an investment".
>>> It is one of dignity, respect, and accountability. Ownership carries
>>> with it certain privileges, among them the avoidance of arbitrary
>>> interference by those who fail to recognize the ability of the blind,
>>> believing their rights preempt those of the blind. No matter how you
>>> dissect this issue, the unwillingness to transfer ownership is founded
>>> in an archaic paternalistic attitude that cannot be justified by any
>> objective evidence.
>>>
>>> As Vice President Hingson stated and is our experience in light of
>>> the numerous instances in which guide dogs have been removed without
>>> cause, ownership is the only rational policy if one believes blind
>>> people should be treated equitably with our sighted peers. Though
>>> Fidelco asserts they transfer ownership after six months, their
>>> agreement is far short of true ownership. Since when does a car
>>> dealership have the right to repossess a dog at their sole and
>>> absolute discretion. I know there are those who will argue that a dog
>>> is diferent than a car; however, under the law, a dog is property no
>>> different than a car, in spite of the fact that it is a living
>>> breathing animal. In fact, following this argument to it slogical end,
>>> how much more attached does one become to a living being that offers
>>> unconcditional love an acceptance. After becoming attached to such a
>>> being, should we not have the right to protect ourselves from
>>> arbitrary, unjust interference from an organization that will result in an
>> emotional bond being broken without cause?
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>
>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc.
>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>> (813) 626-2789 (Office)
>>> 888-NAGDU411 (Hotline
>>> President at nagdu.org
>>> www.nagdu.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike
>>> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 7:20 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] [NAGDU] ownership RE: Guide Dog Schools
>>>
>>> A lot of time and money gets infested into producing a guide dog. Its
>>> silly to try and pressure companies into giving complete ownership to the
>> handler.
>>> If it doesn't work out in six months or a year or even two then,
>>> depending on reason, that dog could go back to the company and
>>> eventually go help someone else.
>>> Why turn such an investment into someone's pet when it could be so
>>> much more for someone else.
>>> I personally don't agree with the bill of rights. People should just
>>> understand their school of choice. Its not our decision. Its theirs
>>> as a business. If we as consumers don't like it then we have other
>>> schools to pick from.
>>> If i ran a school id probably do the same thing. Its protecting an
>>> investment and smaller schools cant afford to hand out pets.
>>> JMO
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>> On Oct 31, 2013, at 9:45 PM, "Michael Hingson"
>>>> <info at michaelhingson.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hannah,
>>>>
>>>> The problem is that what we define as full ownership is not what the
>>>> schools usually mean. The Seeing Eye is an organization that
>>>> provides ownership. I am not as familiar with Pilot, but Chantel
>>>> indicates that Pilot also does give ownership.
>>>>
>>>> Other schools have different contracts that may or may not grant full
>>>> ownership, and that may require that if a guide retires within some
>>>> length of time the school may demand that the guide be returned for
>>>> retraining or for some other purpose. NAGDU has passed resolutions
>>>> calling on all schools to provide full ownership of guide dogs upon
>>>> graduation, and that same position is stated in NAGDU's Guide Dog
>>>> Consumer Bill of Rights. Most guide dog schools are living in the
>>>> past and are as a result paternalistic to one degree or another.
>>>> They do not see the tide of aware consumers which is turning against
>>>> them and which is demanding the same rights given to other citizens
>>>> in other
>>> training situations.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Michael Hingson
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Hannah
>>>> Chadwick
>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 7:22 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] ownership RE: Guide Dog Schools
>>>>
>>>> Chantel,
>>>> Thank you for the correction.
>>>> Can someone please define complete ownership when it comes to guide
>>>> dogs? I mean, if we get complete ownership, then doesn't that mean
>>>> I'd get to keep the dog no matter the age when that dog stops
>>>> working? I'm just curious since I was told that I had to send my dog
>>>> back to the school because she didn't work out but she was only 3.
>>>> Thank you, hannah
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chantel
>>>> Cuddemi
>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 7:08 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Schools
>>>>
>>>> Hanna,
>>>>
>>>> Pilot Dogs gives us graduates full ownership of our dogs upon
>>>> graduation from the program.
>>>>
>>>> Hope that helped,
>>>>
>>>> Chantel and Motley of Pilot Dogs.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Hannah
>>>> Chadwick
>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 7:56 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Schools
>>>>
>>>> Yes, GDB can provide more financial help if needed. I think that
>>>> larger schools tend to have more follow-up services because they have
>>>> more funds as well as trainers. I don't think Pilot gives complete
>>>> ownership, but I could be wrong since that wasn't one of my concerns
>>>> when I applied. Pilot also trains boxers and Dobermans in addition
>>>> to
>>> what Raven mentioned.
>>>> On one hand I think that it is important to have a breed preference,
>>>> but on the other, I think it is the training that matters the most.
>>>> There are good things and bad things about every breed of dog. The
>>>> work you put in is what you will get out. The more effort you put
>>>> into your dog will mean more success with your team. When you get
>>>> your dog, please remember that the bonding process takes between 6
>>>> months and a year. As in my earlier email, please feel free to email
>>>> me off list if you want to know about Pilot or Guide Dogs for the Blind.
>>>> Good luck, Hannah and Spritzie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Raven Tolliver <ravend729 at gmail.com
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org Date sent: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 19:39:50 -0400
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Schools
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I attended Guiding Eyes for the Blind primarily because I wanted an
>>>> adult dog. As a person who never owned or handled a dog before, I
>>>> thought it important to have a dog that was physically and mentally
>>>> mature, and had established mannerisms. I wanted a golden retriever,
>>>> and goldens and German shepherds have a better work ethic as adults.
>>>> This has been proven in studies of guide dog programs and service dog
>>>> programs.
>>>> I also chose GEB because of the financial assistance. Students are
>>>> allotted
>>>> $200 annually, and if your dog is 10 pounds within their target
>>>> weight, the student is given another $100. There is also an
>>>> emergency fund, but it can only be used once during a particular dog's
>> career.
>>>> The GDB grads can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think GDB gives more
>>>> financial assistance than this. Grads from that program can explain
>>>> the
>>> logistics better.
>>>> As far as what breed of dog is best at guide work, that depends on
>>>> the person. I have always adored the gentle nature and laid-back
>>>> temperament of a golden, and I would not want to live with the high
>>>> energy and quirkiness of a typical labrador. German shepherds are
>>>> very serious about their work, but they have high energy requirements.
>>>> All
>>>> three breeds are extremely loving, loyal and obedient if you bond
>>>> with them properly. All three breeds have double coats, so they both
>>>> shed a lot. I do not know as much about the other breeds put out by
>>>> Pilot dogs, but people have success with them, so you would have to
>>>> ask the handlers of poodles, dobermans, and Vieszlas.
>>>> You have to decide for yourself what you like or don't like in a dog.
>>>> And the personality is just as, if not more, important than breed.
>>>> Also, know that if you are picky about breed that it may take longer
>>>> to find you the right dog and get a class date. I was fortunate that
>>>> my golden was available so soon after I applied, but I knew that
>>>> being choosy might mean a longer wait.
>>>> To determine which school might be right for you, you should rate the
>>>> following factors by importance to you.
>>>> location of school, home-training program, special needs program,
>>>> cost of the program, length of program, financial assistance, follow
>>>> up services, ownership policy, training methods, choice to meet and
>>>> keep in touch with your dog's puppy-raisers, graduation ceremony,
>>>> breeds offered, life stage of dogs issued These are just what I can
>>>> think of for now, but there are more factors that others will bring
>>>> to your
>>> attention.
>>>> If ownership is important to you, the Seeing Eye, Pilot Dogs, or
>>>> Guide Dogs of America are options. If you don't understand why
>>>> ownership is important to some people, then I will explain upon
>>>> request, because it is a very serious issue that every service dog
>>>> handler should have proper understanding of.
>>>> If home-training is important to you this is offered by Fidelco,
>>>> Guiding Eyes, and a couple other programs. Guiding Eyes usually does
>>>> home-training with returning graduates, but they have been known to
>>>> approve it for first time trainees.
>>>> I would encourage you to complete your training with your first guide
>>>> dog at the school if it is at all possible and convenient for you.
>>>> The benefit is that you will not likely feel alone in the struggles
>>>> you will experience, and also, you can get great training and doggie
>>>> care tips from experienced guide dog handlers. In addition, you
>>>> could develop long standing relationships with other classmates,
>>>> which was a
>>> plus for me.
>>>> Good luck, and email me off list if you want to know more about my
>>>> Guiding Eyes experience.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10/31/13, Shickeytha Chandler <shickeytha at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Thank you all for your responses. I have actually been leaning
>>>> toward a lab or a golden because I have heard in the past that those
>>>> types of dogs are very loyal and have an even temperament. But at
>>>> the same time, I want to have an open mind and consider what other
>>>> types of dogs might have to offer. By the way, I love the names of
>>>> all three of your dogs. Great dog names!
>>>>
>>>> On 10/31/13, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Shickeytha,
>>>>
>>>> I want to echo what Hannah said in her email. I am working with my
>>>> first guide, Viva from Guide Dogs for the Blind on their Oregon
>>>> campus. As a college student, financial and post-graduation support
>>>> were the two most critical aspects that I was looking for in a guide
>>>> dog school. I felt like GDB provided both of these and I really
>>>> liked their positive training methods as well as the respectful way
>>>> they treat their handlers. Regarding the breed of dog, I think that
>>>> ultimately needs to be your decision. Each individual has their
>>>> preference and people are going to tell you their choice is the best.
>>>> GDB only works with labs and golden retrievers. My girl is a lab and
>>>> I couldn't have asked for a better dog; she's extremely energetic and
>>>> playful, but she's an excellent worker once the harness goes on.
>>>>
>>>> Minh
>>>>
>>>> On 10/31/13, Chantel Cuddemi <jawsgirl87 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Welcome to the list!
>>>>
>>>> I am working my first dog from Pilot Dogs, a standard poodle named
>>> Motley!
>>>>
>>>> We've been a team for a year and eight months.
>>>>
>>>> Good luck with what school you choose!
>>>>
>>>> Chantel and Motley.
>>>>
>>>> On 10/31/13, Hannah Chadwick <sparklylicious at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hey,
>>>> Welcome to the list. I'm working my second guide, Spritz. She is
>>>> from Guide Dogs for the Blind. She is a black lab; I got her over
>>>> the
>>> summer.
>>>> Since I'm a college student and having had a previous dog that was
>>>> very high-maintenance, I knew I would need financial assistance and
>>>> after support. Those were two of the major things I looked for when
>>>> I applied to schools. The training methods (positive vs negative)
>>>> used in schools also mattered to me. Of course which may vary on an
>>>> individual and team basis, but I've come to realize that food
>>>> rewards go a long way. My first dog was from Pilot because I wanted
>>>> a poodle, but
>>> she retired after almost a year.
>>>> My training experience at Pilot was good, but I wasn't as
>>>> experienced so I didn't have the necessary tools to manage such a
>>>> high-strung dog. Please email me off-list if you have further
>> questions.
>>>> Good luck with the application process and all that.
>>>> Best, Hannah and Spritz
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Shickeytha Chandler <shickeytha at gmail.com
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org Date sent: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 14:08:20 -0400
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Schools
>>>>
>>>> No problem. I understand that different people have different
>>>> experiences and perspectives, and I think it is important to
>>>> consider both positive and negative. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> On 10/31/13, Mike <blinkin4342 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> As a Fidelco client I completely disagree with the statement that
>>>> Fidelco has contract issues. The issues are definitely personal and
>>>> not Fidelco's fault.
>>>> I have had nothing but good experiences with Fidelco over the last
>>>> three years and I know a lot of people who feel the same way. There
>>>> are a certain handful of folks on this list who have personal issues
>>>> with Fidelco and tend to be much louder than the people who have
>>>> good experiences.
>>>> You should definitely read the contract to make sure you are aware
>>>> of the rules. That is the case with any guy dog school. Just keep
>>>> an open mind.
>>>> Every school has good and bad things. Every school has someone who
>>>> loves them and hates them. I'd recommend that you decide what breed
>>>> you want, see what school meets your needs the best, and go forward
>>>> from there.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 31, 2013, at 12:18 PM, "Larry D. Keeler"
>>>> <lkeeler at comcast.net
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> First, watch out for Fidelco! They have contract issues.
>>>> Before
>>>> you
>>>> decide, make sure you read and understand the contract. The other
>>>> thing, schools when possible do give you a choice. Now always can
>>>> they accomidate but usually they can. I went to Pilot because I
>>>> wanted a poodle. They breed them down there. However, I ended up
>>>> qith a labradoodle wich is almost as good! As for training at
>>>> school or at home, I think it would be more useful to train at hom.
>>>> But, if you know your neighborhood, it doesn't matter as much.
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shickeytha Chandler"
>>>> <shickeytha at gmail.com
>>>> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:44 AM
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Guide Dog Schools
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello all,
>>>>
>>>> I am new to the list. I currently travel with a cane, but am very
>>>> seriously considering getting a guide dog in the near future.
>>>> I
>>>> am
>>>> doing research on guide dog schools to see which might be best for me.
>>>> I am considering Fidelco, Guiding Eyes and the Seeing Eye.
>>>> Does
>>>> anyone
>>>> on this list have either particularly positive or especially negative
>>>> experiences with any of these schools? If so, I would be interested
>>>> to hear your feedback. Also, I noticed that Fidelco does training
>>>> at your residence, whereas the other schools bring you to their
>>>> campuses for training. I would like to hear perspectives about the
>>>> disadvantages and advantages of each of these methods of
>>> training.
>>>>
>>>> Finally, I know that various types of dogs are trained as guides,
>>>> ranging from labs to German Shepherds. I would like to know if
>>>> schools give you a choice as to what type of dog you are paired with.
>>>> Also, I
>>>> would be interested to hear from anyone who has worked with dogs of
>>>> various kinds; I'd like to know your thoughts as to whether there
>>>> are distinct qualities that one breed possesses that another breed
>>>> does not generally possess. Of course, I am sure all dogs are
>>>> unique, even within a breed type.
>>>>
>>>> I know that is a lot of questions for one email. Thanks in advance
>>>> for any insight that you can provide.
>>>>
>>>> Shickeytha
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>> --
>>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the
>>>> dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was
>>>> vanity:
>>>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
>>>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E.
>>>> Lawrence
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