[nagdu] re ownership

Thu Nov 14 19:47:47 UTC 2013

Hi Star,
I think you're blowing this out of proportion, and maybe it's because
of some instances you've witnessed or heard of. Regardless, it is not
typical of the school's to just take away an overweight dog and not
give it back. The schools care just as much about their clients as
they do their dogs, and they want to help people be successful in the
caring and work of their guide dogs. If this means doing medical
testing, helping the handler put the dog on a weight loss program,
bringing the dog back to the school for a weight loss program, or
removing the dog from a handler who has consistently demonstrated an
inability to keep the dog's weight down, then the school will do it.
Obesity in dogs is common, and if an obese dog doesn't have a health
issue that is often the cause of serious weight gain, then you better
believe that health problems are coming down the road. Obese dogs are
likely to develop various health issues, and working an obese dog is
taxing on their bones and joints, which opens up another can of worms.
Any school that intervenes with an obese dog is not being arrogant,
but it is obvious that the handler is not aware of or addressing the
problem, so the school can help, or at least try to. The school has
staff who know what the dog's target weight is and what an unhealthy
dog looks/acts like, and they know how to fix these issues. It is not
unreasonable or insensitive for the school to step in at all.

On 11/14/13, Star Gazer <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com> wrote:
> Schools aren't going to say "We have a low opinion of our grads, we take one
> dog away a week".
> Using your example, it comes across as "we all-knowing school, you idiot
> handler who intentionally let his/her dog get overweight".
> Is any attempt made by the school to sort out the lazy handlers from the
> ones who's dogs may have a medical issue? A malfunctioning thyroid can cause
> a dog (and a human for that matter) to gain weight.  What about those
> handlers who live with someone who overfeeds their dog?  What about handlers
> who may have medical issues and don't realize they are overfeeding their
> dogs, dementia comes to mind. Someone who has had dogs his or her entire
> life may not remember how much they've fed a dog but do know the dog needs
> to eat.
>
> ?The tone of your school's policy gives me pause. It may work for you, and
> that's fine. It wouldn't be ok with me based on how you've described it.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of GARY STEEVES
> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 12:40 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: [nagdu] re ownership
>
> Hi All:
>
> I have to weigh in on this conversation with a potential guide dog user. I
> am in total agreement that ownership is one of the issues I recommend people
> look at when picking a school but I think we should keep away from blanket
> statements about what is good or bad. It is up to the individual to assess
> how they feel about the owner rules. I think it is important to talk to a
> school about why they have such a policy and when do they enforce it. I
> wasn't happy that the school I went to had a policy where they have
> ownership until retirement but I decided to go there anyways. Once I got
> there and talked with the trainers and head of their program I learned that
> they have very rarely taken a dog back and it is 99% because a person has
> let their dog get extremely over weight. Even then, they take the dog for
> three months to get it's weight down and work with the client to further
> educate them on looking after their dog. After the 3 months they return the
> dog and monitor the situation closely. They will take the dog away if it is
> allowed to get over weight again. So, yes I would prefer ownership but am
> able to live with this policy at this time. However, it is not as simple as
> saying I lent you a book and I can just take it back at any time, or at
> least all situations wouldn't be that cut and dry.
>
> Gary
>
> PS: I'm celebrating that I got very behind  on the list last year. My
> webmail doesn't allow bulk deletes so I actually went through over 4000
> emails in the past six months and am now finally up to date! Silly but made
> me feel good to delete  the last old message from September 2012. :)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: barbandzoe at comcast.net
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 09:51:57 -0700 (MST)
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hi
>
>
>
> I work at a fitness club, I do laundry and locker room attendant I am part
> time right now and have no vacation and sick pay.
>
> I had always though that guide dogs were only for people with no sight, and
> now I find that people who are legally blind can use a guide dog.  I don't
> like using a cane I feel funny.  Plus I have had abit of trouble with night
> and bright day vision since I get glaucoma.   Plus I am in my fifties and go
> home at night and I end up in the best part of town.  I have not had trouble
> yet, but all the people going to the bar and the guys out pan handling, well
> it would be nice to have a friend with me. plus sometimes when I cross so of
> the busier streets, it is a bit of a guessing game.
> Plus I would have had a dog and time ago if I would have known this.
>
> If it is a cane or dog, I will take the dog anyday.
>
> Barb
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Star Gazer" <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:28:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hi
>
> Not necessarily.
> Talk to other schools, GDF, Guiding Eyes, Leader, you've got nothing to
> loose.
> Leader Dogs also doesn't grant ownership.
> I'm not sure about Guiding Eyes. GDF does. Any school that doesn't grant
> ownership can take your dog back. Think of it like renting. If that gives
> you the willies, then you do need a school that grants ownership. Could you
> take medical leave or vacation time? Would you want to do this?
> I'm curious, what do you do? And, why do you want a dog now? Maybe if you
> can explain that to your employer, you'll have better luck?
> I had two dogs, and now use a cane. If you like, email me off-list.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> barbandzoe at comcast.net
> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:22 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hi
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for that.  I don't have the option to say it's like taking classes,
> cause we have no classes to take that would help me in my job.  I am a low
> level employee and they can find some one w=else to do my job.
>
> I have herd that about fidelco the taking of the dog. That does bother me.
> But if I want a dog I would have to go through them because I can't get that
> kind of time off.
>
>
> Barb
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Star Gazer" <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 8:03:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hi
>
> Barb,
> Talk to your boss and present it as training like computer or other
> training, training that you will use to help make you a better employee.
> Look at your com Pany and see what types of courses they offer, many do
> offer multiweek courses of all kinds.
> I'd approach from that angle.
> As for Fildelco, you have to understand that they don't grant ownership,
> which means they can take your dog at any time for any reason. It's be like
> if I lent you my Ipod, I could come and get it whenever I liked. The school
> may never do this to you, but they do have that option.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> barbandzoe at comcast.net
> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 10:33 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hi
>
> Yes, I have herd about things with fidelco, but I don't know what the issues
> are.   I don't want trouble, and if I find they are to stricked  in some of
> their needs and conditions, I will look into another school.   If the people
> who have dogs from fidelco get this, could they tell me what I may need to
> know. I know Seeing Eye has GSD's but they have a four week program.  How if
> I can get my  boss to let me talk that time, I would go there, or pilot
> dogs.
>
> Thanks
> Barb
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Tai Blas" <taiablas at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 8:46:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hi
>
> Best of luck choosing a school. Whatever school you choose, be sure to
> familiarize yourself with its contract. Some  schools do not grant you full
> ownership of your dog and requires certain conditions be met. There are
> several people who got dogs from Fidelco on this list.
>
>
> Tai
>
> Sent  from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 12, 2013, at 8:26 PM, barbandzoe at comcast.net wrote:
>>
>> II have been looking into Fidelco, mostly because they come to my house
>> and train there for about three weeks, plus I really want a GSD.  It is
>> hard enough to get a couple of days off work two to four weeks would be
>> hard.  I know that I still have to take time off to train with Fidelco,
>> but if I can't get a shift covered, maybe we could use that as a training
>> session.   Plus I have two dogs at home that are my roommates, and the
>> trainer could maybe help with introducing them.
>>
>> Barb
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: "Tai Blas" <taiablas at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 2:49:09 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hi
>>
>> Welcome to the list. It is my understanding that Guide Dogs for the Blind
>> has a two week training program. They have campuses in California and
>> Oregon. Their website is www.guidedogs.com.
>>
>> Tai
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Nov 12, 2013, at 2:34 PM, barbandzoe at comcast.net wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi am knew to the list, and my name is Barb
>>>
>>> I am looking into getting a guide dog, but haven't gotten any pepper work
>>> yet. I am still looking at schools, but I am finding the 4 weeks away
>>> from home and work a bit much to work around.  I want a dog and hope to
>>> get things started soon.
>>>
>>> Barb
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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>
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-- 
Raven