[nagdu] re ownership
barbandzoe at comcast.net
barbandzoe at comcast.net
Mon Nov 18 02:52:40 UTC 2013
Hi,I did read the clause in the fidelco cantract, and I will say that does bother me. OK maybe it will never happen, but i would be crushed if after three years or so of working with a dog, to have someone come to my door and take them away. and I would think the dog would be upset to. these dog guide schools have people look after the baby puppies, then they are taken away from them, and given to puppy raisers, and agter about a year they are taken from them and go to the school for training, and them they meat their knew prtner after months of training, and they have to leave the trainer who they now trust. so to take a dog away from someone after they have once again givien trust, would be so sad for me to think about.
I have been looking into seeing eye and now leader. I just hope I can talk my boss into letting me off if I get picked to get a dog. It would depend on the time of year if I have a chance of getting time off. It is sad Fidelco seemed so right, training at home, where I can still do most of the things I need to do, and I could maybe have gone to work a couple days if no one would sub for me, plus we could use that time to train the dog for staying at my job.
I may call fidelco and see what they say about that part of the contract.
If I did go with Fidelco, and they took my dog for no good reason, I would call my local news station and start a story. they would call Fidelco and see what they had to say. The news people love it when they can help the poor little blind lady get her dog back. But to me, there are many ways to make these schools re-think what they do and how they do it. I think it is fine that they check up on the dogs and make shure you are caring for them proper, these are expensive dogs, and I have seen some fat old guide dogs panting down the sidewalk, but they need to help you not just rip apart your life.
Barb
----- Original Message -----
From: "National Association of Guide Dog Users" <blind411 at verizon.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 3:05:43 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] re ownership
One of the benefits of ownership is the inability of a program to
remove a dog without due process. I realize most programs are not disposed
to repossessing a dog; however, the fact remains that sometimes mistakes
happen and, without due process through ownership, the mistake can be very
emotionally hurtful.
I will again reiterate that the clause in the Fidelco agreement that
they have the right to repossess a dog at any time and for any reason at
their sole and absolute discretion is very troubling. This statement implies
the repossession could be arbitrary and no explanation need be given and no
cause required. I know there are Fidelco handlers on this list who feel I am
ginding an axe with Fidelco. The fact still remains that they refused to
give a cause for at least one repossession and cited this clause as their
sole and absolute right. Fidelco handlers assert they would not do so
without cause, but theirfailure to be transparent and accountable in spite
of a signed authorization to release information tells a very different
story. I know that all we can do is make consumers aware of this clause and
urge Fidelco to change their policy. I doubt Fidelco will do so, especially
in light of Ms. Unwinn's comment that we don't have much say in their
program because we don't pay for their services!
Fraternally yours,
Marion Gwizdala
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of melissa R green
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 5:38 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] re ownership
I agree with your statement that it is up to the indevidual concerning
ownership.
I also believe that people should be educated about ownership and then make
that choice.
I am glad that I chose the school that I did and that I knew about
ownership.
This is a good thread for discussion.
I am glad it hasn't gotten to heated and nasty.
I would add another twist to this.
We all know that there are schools that took dogs from people.
I would think that if those people went to another school and obtained a dog
that they probably would be more worried and would not ask for help.
In the case of those who were in the wrong so to speak, they would probably
blame the school or someone else for what happened to them.
Those are my thoughts anyway.
May be I am the only one who have these thoughts.
Best,
Melissa R. Green and Pj
COAGDU President
"We love because he first loved us."
----- Original Message -----
From: "GARY STEEVES" <rainshadowmusic at shaw.ca>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:40 AM
Subject: [nagdu] re ownership
Hi All:
I have to weigh in on this conversation with a potential guide dog user. I
am in total agreement that ownership is one of the issues I recommend people
look at when picking a school but I think we should keep away from blanket
statements about what is good or bad. It is up to the individual to assess
how they feel about the owner rules. I think it is important to talk to a
school about why they have such a policy and when do they enforce it. I
wasn't happy that the school I went to had a policy where they have
ownership until retirement but I decided to go there anyways. Once I got
there and talked with the trainers and head of their program I learned that
they have very rarely taken a dog back and it is 99% because a person has
let their dog get extremely over weight. Even then, they take the dog for
three months to get it's weight down and work with the client to further
educate them on looking after their dog. After the 3 months they return the
dog and monitor the situation closely. They will take the dog away if it is
allowed to get over weight again. So, yes I would prefer ownership but am
able to live with this policy at this time. However, it is not as simple as
saying I lent you a book and I can just take it back at any time, or at
least all situations wouldn't be that cut and dry.
Gary
PS: I'm celebrating that I got very behind on the list last year. My
webmail doesn't allow bulk deletes so I actually went through over 4000
emails in the past six months and am now finally up to date! Silly but made
me feel good to delete the last old message from September 2012. :)
----- Original Message -----
From: barbandzoe at comcast.net
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 09:51:57 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hi
I work at a fitness club, I do laundry and locker room attendant I am part
time right now and have no vacation and sick pay.
I had always though that guide dogs were only for people with no sight, and
now I find that people who are legally blind can use a guide dog. I don't
like using a cane I feel funny. Plus I have had abit of trouble with night
and bright day vision since I get glaucoma. Plus I am in my fifties and go
home at night and I end up in the best part of town. I have not had trouble
yet, but all the people going to the bar and the guys out pan handling, well
it would be nice to have a friend with me. plus sometimes when I cross so of
the busier streets, it is a bit of a guessing game.
Plus I would have had a dog and time ago if I would have known this.
If it is a cane or dog, I will take the dog anyday.
Barb
----- Original Message -----
From: "Star Gazer" <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:28:17 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hi
Not necessarily.
Talk to other schools, GDF, Guiding Eyes, Leader, you've got nothing to
loose.
Leader Dogs also doesn't grant ownership.
I'm not sure about Guiding Eyes. GDF does. Any school that doesn't grant
ownership can take your dog back. Think of it like renting. If that gives
you the willies, then you do need a school that grants ownership.
Could you take medical leave or vacation time? Would you want to do this?
I'm curious, what do you do? And, why do you want a dog now? Maybe if you
can explain that to your employer, you'll have better luck?
I had two dogs, and now use a cane. If you like, email me off-list.
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
barbandzoe at comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:22 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hi
Hi,
Thanks for that. I don't have the option to say it's like taking classes,
cause we have no classes to take that would help me in my job. I am a low
level employee and they can find some one w=else to do my job.
I have herd that about fidelco the taking of the dog. That does bother me.
But if I want a dog I would have to go through them because I can't get that
kind of time off.
Barb
----- Original Message -----
From: "Star Gazer" <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 8:03:14 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hi
Barb,
Talk to your boss and present it as training like computer or other
training, training that you will use to help make you a better employee.
Look at your com Pany and see what types of courses they offer, many do
offer multiweek courses of all kinds.
I'd approach from that angle.
As for Fildelco, you have to understand that they don't grant ownership,
which means they can take your dog at any time for any reason. It's be like
if I lent you my Ipod, I could come and get it whenever I liked. The school
may never do this to you, but they do have that option.
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
barbandzoe at comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 10:33 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hi
Yes, I have herd about things with fidelco, but I don't know what the issues
are. I don't want trouble, and if I find they are to stricked in some of
their needs and conditions, I will look into another school. If the people
who have dogs from fidelco get this, could they tell me what I may need to
know. I know Seeing Eye has GSD's but they have a four week program. How if
I can get my boss to let me talk that time, I would go there, or pilot dogs.
Thanks
Barb
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tai Blas" <taiablas at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 8:46:46 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hi
Best of luck choosing a school. Whatever school you choose, be sure to
familiarize yourself with its contract. Some schools do not grant you full
ownership of your dog and requires certain conditions be met. There are
several people who got dogs from Fidelco on this list.
Tai
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 12, 2013, at 8:26 PM, barbandzoe at comcast.net wrote:
>
> II have been looking into Fidelco, mostly because they come to my house
> and train there for about three weeks, plus I really want a GSD. It is
> hard enough to get a couple of days off work two to four weeks would be
> hard. I know that I still have to take time off to train with Fidelco, but
> if I can't get a shift covered, maybe we could use that as a training
> session. Plus I have two dogs at home that are my roommates, and the
> trainer could maybe help with introducing them.
>
> Barb
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Tai Blas" <taiablas at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 2:49:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hi
>
> Welcome to the list. It is my understanding that Guide Dogs for the Blind
> has a two week training program. They have campuses in California and
> Oregon. Their website is www.guidedogs.com.
>
> Tai
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 12, 2013, at 2:34 PM, barbandzoe at comcast.net wrote:
>>
>> Hi am knew to the list, and my name is Barb
>>
>> I am looking into getting a guide dog, but haven't gotten any pepper work
>> yet. I am still looking at schools, but I am finding the 4 weeks away
>> from home and work a bit much to work around. I want a dog and hope to
>> get things started soon.
>>
>> Barb
>> _______________________________________________
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