[nagdu] some miscellaneous issues and updates from AleehaandDallas

Tue Nov 19 17:05:02 UTC 2013

Tracy,

That's how we have ended up doing it, unless there is room for Mitzi to 
go under and arrange herself. So I tell her "under" first, and if she 
has an issue, we do "scootch," which is what you describe. She does not 
like doing this, so we make a little game out of it and I give her lots 
of treats. Fortunately, if the place is crowded, she is much more 
cooperative, so there is less fuss. I think she prefers to know the 
reason to do something like that; if we're in an empty office and just 
doing it for practice, it is a big imposition. If it will keep her from 
being stepped on or constantly mugged by admirers, then that makes sense.

I also have to be careful not to get in a hurry and scootch her 
somewhere there isn't actually room because I didn't feel around under 
the chair first. /smile/

Tami

On 11/19/2013 08:01 AM, Tracy Carcione wrote:
> If it's helpful, the way I teach my dogs to go under a chair is to first
> sit myself, then get the dog to turn around and sit near or between my
> knees, facing away.  Then I pet him a bit, then tell him Down and slide
> him back until he's under the chair.  Then a bit more petting.
> HTH.
> Tracy
>
>> Only problem is that I don't trust him not to get into mischief if
>> he's facing backward. He is a scavenger and will grab any old thing.
>>
>>
>> On 11/18/13, Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net> wrote:
>>> Hi Aleeha.
>>> Whatever works.  Sometimes Ben is just determined to be backward, and
>>> all
>>> my efforts to turn him around go for naught.  But, so long as he's not
>>> getting into mischief, hey, whatever.
>>> If Dallas is nervous about getting under your chair, it is especially
>>> important to be patient with him.  If he thinks you're getting annoyed
>>> with him, he may get even more nervous.
>>> You can try working on it during your regular day, but it might be more
>>> productive to work on it at home at first, where you can both be relaxed
>>> about it.
>>> JMO.
>>> Tracy
>>>
>>>> Bi,
>>>>    I am trying to get him to face outward, but he literally will not. I
>>>> have to really coax and cajole him to get him settled. In my class
>>>> today, all he wanted to do was go in head first. Be actually ended up
>>>> settled next to my chair.
>>>> Aleeha and the studious Dallas
>>>>
>>>> On 11/17/13, Buddy Brannan <buddy at brannan.name> wrote:
>>>>> Putting the dog under the chair with the head facing backwards also
>>>>> seemed
>>>>> counterintuitive to me, and I never did it. At TSE when I went, I was
>>>>> never
>>>>> corrected on this; it was a habit I got into with my first dog. In any
>>>>> case,
>>>>> it seems to me that having the head facing forward, between your feet,
>>>>> would
>>>>> give you better control over where your dog’s head is and what his
>>>>> mouth
>>>>> may
>>>>> or may not be trying to grab off the floor, not to mention less
>>>>> likelihood
>>>>> of people trying to give your dog stuff without your knowledge or
>>>>> consent.
>>>>> --
>>>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>>>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 16, 2013, at 11:20 PM, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree with Nicole, that just seems counterintuitive for a dog to do
>>>>>> that. Also, a lot of chairs have bars and stuff on them so I don't
>>>>>> think squeezing them in there would be very comfortable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/14/13, Nicole Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Head facing the back of the chair? No offense , but, JMHO, there's
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> problem right there. Some dogs don't like putting their heads in
>>>>>>> confined
>>>>>>> spaces. Also, they like to be able to see what's going on, even if
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> not directly involved in it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of daniel
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 5:29 AM
>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] some miscellaneous issues and updates from
>>>>>>> AleehaandDallas
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> hey aleeha, I wonder what it is about these dogs that set off the
>>>>>>> veehicle
>>>>>>> nervousness? If I remember correctly you went to training the class
>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> did (summer)? And I know Irene is having issues with all veehicles
>>>>>>> along
>>>>>>> with another member of my class. As for the chair thing: at tse they
>>>>>>> taught
>>>>>>> us to put the head facing towards the back of the chair...for some
>>>>>>> reason
>>>>>>> irene hates this. I've just started putting her with her head facing
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> table (or the front of the chair) and now she does just fine...
>>>>>>> When you get over the veehicle problem with dallas, could you let me
>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>> how you did it? I'm trying food rewards and they don't seem to have
>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>> affect...
>>>>>>> hope dallas is doing well,
>>>>>>> daniel and the allways sleeping Irene.
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Aleeha Dudley" <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 11:23 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] some miscellaneous issues and updates from
>>>>>>> Aleeha
>>>>>>> andDallas
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>     I contacted The Seeing Eye last week and spoke with someone
>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>> these behaviors. I am working on them and hope to get them to
>>>>>>>> improve.
>>>>>>>> Dallas did show his fear of vacuum cleaners during training, but
>>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>>> exhibited any of these other fears.
>>>>>>>> Thanks for all your wonderful suggestions!
>>>>>>>> Aleeha and the currently snoozing Dallas
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/9/13, Nicole Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Did Dallas exhibit any of these behaviors during training? Have
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> contacted the school about any of them? As for suggestions...
>>>>>>>>> Do you have a chair at home with which you can practice him going
>>>>>>>>> under the chair? You might want to try it without the harness a
>>>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>>>> times as he might be nervous about the harness getting hung. Also,
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> would not recommend forcing him to go under the chair if he is
>>>>>>>>> afraid
>>>>>>>>> as this might just make things worse. Do you have a clicker and
>>>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>>> clicker training? You could try to use it to train him to go under
>>>>>>>>> the chair. Start by sitting in the chair and having Dallas lay
>>>>>>>>> between your feet facing away from you. Click and treat. Once he
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> comfortable with that, make sure his tail and hind legs are not
>>>>>>>>> sticking out and gently scoot  him back a tiny bit toward the
>>>>>>>>> chair
>>>>>>>>> by putting both hands on his chest and pushing backwards. Don't
>>>>>>>>> push
>>>>>>>>> him all the way under the first time but rather work up to it.
>>>>>>>>> Each
>>>>>>>>> time, have him stay in that position for a little while and then
>>>>>>>>> let
>>>>>>>>> him get up. When he gets up, make sure that he is not getting
>>>>>>>>> hung.
>>>>>>>>> He might be afraid of going under the chair because he got stuck
>>>>>>>>> once. Also, of course, make sure that you do not inadvertently
>>>>>>>>> move
>>>>>>>>> the chair while he is under it and get on his feet or tail or ear
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> something.
>>>>>>>>> As for the bus, I would recommend giving Dallas treats. Can you
>>>>>>>>> tell
>>>>>>>>> when there is going to be a stop? If so, you could pet him and try
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> keep him from jumping up. I would not use a correction for him
>>>>>>>>> jumping
>>>>>>> up.
>>>>>>>>> Instead,
>>>>>>>>> gently pull him back into a down position and try to calm him
>>>>>>>>> down.
>>>>>>>>> Once he is back in the desired position, give him a treat. Also,
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> this something that he does in all vehicles or just in buses?
>>>>>>>>> What does Dallas do when you vacuum at home? You could try get him
>>>>>>>>> used to it. Take Dallas in a room and shut the door. Have a friend
>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>> a few rooms away with the vacuum cleaner, but make sure that you
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> some way to communicate, such as a cell phone or walky talky. Put
>>>>>>>>> Dallas in a down position and give him a treat. Then have the
>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>> person turn on the vacuum cleaner. If he immediately jumps up,
>>>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>>>>> the vacuum off and start over.
>>>>>>>>> Keep doing this and using treats until he does not jump up any
>>>>>>>>> more.
>>>>>>>>> It may take a few sessions as doing it continuously for a long
>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>> can make it worse. Once he does not jump up, slowly increase the
>>>>>>>>> amount of time that the vacuum cleaner runs. Then, once he can
>>>>>>>>> tolerate it for more than a minute, have your friend move one room
>>>>>>>>> closer so that the noise is louder. Keep doing this until Dallas
>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>> tolerate it in the same room.
>>>>>>>>> If you take Dallas out on a regular schedule and know that he does
>>>>>>>>> not need to go when he pulls over into the grass, then I would
>>>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>>>> him a leash correction, and the same for when he just randomly
>>>>>>>>> stops,
>>>>>>>>> especially if it seems random and he does not seem to be confused
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> anything.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aleeha
>>>>>>>>> Dudley
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 1:21 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] some miscellaneous issues and updates from Aleeha
>>>>>>>>> and Dallas
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>>>   I know I haven't written in a while. It's been quite the busy
>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>> here.
>>>>>>>>>   Good news: Dallas did fairly well at our state NFB convention
>>>>>>>>> last
>>>>>>>>> week.
>>>>>>>>> He didn't have an accident in the hotel, but he was a bit
>>>>>>>>> constipated
>>>>>>>>> for a couple days. The biggest issue I saw was his dog
>>>>>>>>> distractions.
>>>>>>>>> He likes to twist around in harness, making things very difficult.
>>>>>>>>> Most of the time, nothing but a high collar will get him even
>>>>>>>>> close
>>>>>>>>> to past a distraction.
>>>>>>>>>   I'm wondering if anyone has suggestions for a couple of problems
>>>>>>>>> I'm having with Dally boy. He's a wonderful guide, but these
>>>>>>>>> issues
>>>>>>>>> are somewhat annoying. The first of them is his hesitance to go
>>>>>>>>> under
>>>>>>>>> chairs. I almost have to drag him under the chair, which makes
>>>>>>>>> both
>>>>>>>>> him and me uncomfortable.
>>>>>>>>> A sighted person says he shows some fear when I try to get him
>>>>>>>>> settled.
>>>>>>>>>   Second, Dallas has a similar behavior on busses. He seems very
>>>>>>>>> fearful and, at times, cowers under the seat, leaping up at every
>>>>>>>>> stop.
>>>>>>>>>   Third is his irrational fear of vacuum cleaners. I can handle
>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> at home, but when one is being used, in a restaurant, say, I
>>>>>>>>> literally cannot keep ahold of him.
>>>>>>>>>   The last issue is the most serious. Dallas likes to pretend he
>>>>>>>>> needs to park, pulling off to the grass and not going. He also has
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> tendency to stop in the sidewalk and stand there, looking around.
>>>>>>>>> No
>>>>>>>>> amount of coaxing will get him going again.
>>>>>>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> Aleeha and the little yellow Dally boy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavec
>>>>>>>>> able.co
>>>>>>>>> m
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%4
>>>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/gutz2020%40gmail.co
>>>>>>>> m
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.co
>>>>>>> m
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the
>>>>>> dusty
>>>>>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
>>>>>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
>>>>>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tami%40poodlemutt.com
>