[nagdu] self identification

Sun Nov 24 18:07:47 UTC 2013

Agreed all around.  I too like to sit near the front, although I don't
specifically require the row behind the bulkhead.  However, what I often do
is call the airline after my online reservation is made.  When I call I
request my seat and never mention the dog.

You are right that when we arrive at the airport airline people try to
switch my seat anyway, (they make up the rules as they go along as I said).

The guide dog schools STILL encourage bulkhead seating.  This is unfortunate
and this is why we need the NAGDU Consumer Bill of Rights to help insure
real consumer participation in the schools.  Inertia is hard to change. 

Best,

Michael Hingson

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jenine Stanley
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 10:01 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] self identification

Honestly Michael, whether I self identify or not, I often have to ask and
negotiate for the seat I want, which is usually the window seat in the row
behind bulkhead. If I don't self identify, the seat gets changed when they
see me at the airport. Sometimes they mention changing it and I say no and
start the process of negotiation. Sometimes they don't tell me they've
changed it and I find out by asking at the gate or when boarding. 

Really it is an individual choice. I do so because I want the law on my side
should I have a real problem. I also do so because again, it's not like
another plane will just pull up and I can board it. If I'm traveling, it's
usually for business and I need to get there and want to do so without
hassles. 

Truthfully, most seat screwups for me are easily negotiated in the plane
itself. Why should I have to do this negotiation anyway? That's what you're
really saying, I think. 

I personally don't choose my seat if I book on line. The accessibility of
Expedia's seat system is sketchy for me. By self identifying, I can say that
the dog is the reason for the accommodation needed and since I'm not asking
specifically for bulkhead, which does require I believe, the 48 hour notice,
this shouldn't be rocket science. 

I think we can also blame the guide dog schools, mine included, as for a
long time they were advising the airlines that bulkhead was the only place
for dogs. Some schools still do this. 

Jenine Stanley
jeninems at wowway.com
http://www.twitter.com/jeninems

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael Hingson
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 11:27 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] self identification

Genine,

I'd be interested in knowing what specific seat you require.  Unless it is
the bulkhead you usually can request a specific seat when making your
reservation unless that seat is taken.

As I said earlier, the difficulty with self identification is that while you
may get the seat you want, (not the only way to get that seat), the airlines
can argue with you that they know what is best and their time to prepare
arguments against you is longer because you gave them that time.

If this sounds like a kind of warfare, you bet it is.  Both my wife and I
have been down all these roads for 40+ years each.  Now Karen self
identifies as she uses a power chair.  I do not and do not need to except
when I tried my experiment a week ago and see where that got me.

So again, I wonder what seat you need that you can't get it simply through
the standard reservation process?  If it is the bulkhead row then I
understand as that row is usually not available through the reservation
process.  Of course, I would urge reconsideration if you do use the
bulkhead. 

Best,

Michael Hingson
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jenine Stanley
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 08:03 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] self identification

OK Marion, here's my reasoning. 

Granted, the airlines seem indeed to make it up as they go along in terms of
seating.  However, if we do have adverse situations like what happened to Al
Rizzi and we have to deal with completely unreasonable crew members, it's
just my belief that we should have all of our legal ducks in a row. 

Hey Airline staff, I self identified. I asked to pre-board. I asked for a
specific seat with a specific reason for that request. It's not like I just
showed up and you had no idea what to do. I, unlike you, followed the
regulations set forth in the Air Carriers Access Act. 

Sadly these days it's all about CYA. 

Now, if you don't care about what seat you have and are fine with the seat
assigned, then no, there's no need to self identify as you don't need to do
that for pre-boarding, until you are literally at the gate that is. 

I look at this whole thing as one of those situations in which we are
eventually, through the formal complaint processes, going to hammer the
actual rules into people. I fear I'm way, way, way too optimistic. :) Jenine
Stanley jeninems at wowway.com http://www.twitter.com/jeninems

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of National
Association of Guide Dog Users
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 6:01 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] self identification

Jenine,
	I agree with #3, if one needs a certain seat; however, I'm not sure
how either the restricted environment or the desire to pre-board would
require advance notification. Merry and I generally pre-board for the same
reasons you state and neither of us have ever given advance notification.
Maybe you can share a little more about this.

Fraternally yours,
Marion

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jenine Stanley
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 10:46 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: [nagdu] self identification

Marion, 

I agree with you in most cases. Self identification just is not necessary as
someone working with any type of assistance dog. 

Air travel though is a bit different in a couple ways. I do self identify
there because: 

1. It's a very restricted environment. It's not like another plane will just
pull up to take you where you want to go. 
2. I want to pre-board for very specific reasons, to get the seat I want,
which I'm pretty proactive about, and to get all dog-related issues settled
ASAP so I can plug in and tune out. :) 3. But most importantly, under the
Air Carrier Access Act, if I want a specific seat or type of seat as an
accommodation for dog, I have to self identify, at least 48 hours before the
flight. 

So there ya go. 

Do I do this with taxi cabs, restaurants, stores, etc.? Absolutely not. 

Jenine Stanley
jeninems at wowway.com
http://www.twitter.com/jeninems

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