[nagdu] Disabled veteran kicked off US Airways plane, refused to put service dog on floor

[Howard J. Levine]

no way my guide dog goes with me...

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tami Jarvis
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 11:15 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Disabled veteran kicked off US Airways plane, refused
to put service dog on floor

Hm... I think I would try to get a later flight. I think it would be super
stressful on Mitzi to be with the pets, since she is trained to be with me
and is used to that. I wouldn't want to add to her stress on a long
excursion. Also, I would want her with me in case of emergency, etc. If
she's with me, I know who is handling her and how. Tossing her in a crate
with the pets for the baggage handlers (or whoever) to fling around... I
wouldn't be comfortable with that.

Tami

On 09/09/2013 09:15 PM, Nicole Torcolini wrote:
> If you were in the position where, somehow, your dog could not fit on 
> the plane, would you put your dog with the other pets or try to get a 
> later flight? Just curious what people think about this one.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ginger 
> Kutsch
> Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 8:27 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Disabled veteran kicked off US Airways 
> plane,refused to put service dog on floor
>
> Tami,
> Pasted below is an excerpt from the DOT's Office of Aviation Enforcement &
> Proceedings publication   called Answers to Frequently Asked Questions
> Concerning Air Travel of People with Disabilities Under the Amended 
> Air Carrier Access Act Regulation. I've included several questions 
> that might be of interest along with those questions that specifically 
> address where a service animal may be seated on the air craft.
>
>
> Section 382.81 - Seating Accommodations
>
> 24.	Can an airline require passengers with a disability accompanied by
> service animals to sit in the bulkhead row?
>
> Answer: No.  As stated in 382.81 (c), a passenger with a disability 
> traveling with a service animal must be provided, as the passenger 
> requests, either a bulkhead seat or a seat other than a bulkhead seat 
> that would accommodate the service animal subject to applicable safety 
> regulations.  If the passenger chooses a seat other than a bulkhead 
> seat, the carrier is not required to permit the passenger to specify a 
> particular seat of his or her choosing (e.g., "7C") that he or she 
> would not be entitled to under the carrier's normal seat-selection 
> procedures, except to the extent necessary to accommodate the animal 
> as required by sections 382.117(b) and (c) of the rule.
>
> 25.	May a carrier exclude a passenger with a disability seeking to
> travel with a service animal from his or her specific assigned seat or 
> require that passenger to sit in a particular seat in the cabin?
>
> Answer:  No, except to comply with FAA or applicable foreign 
> government safety regulations.  A service animal may be placed at the 
> feet of a person with a disability at any bulkhead seat or in any 
> other seat as long as when the animal is seated/placed/curled up on 
> the floor, no part of the animal extends into the main aisle(s) of the 
> aircraft and the service animal is not at an emergency exit row seat.
>
>
> Section 382.87 - Other Seating Accommodations
>
> 26.	Must a passenger needing more than one seat to accommodate his/her
> disability pay for the additional seat(s)?
>
> Answer: A person who requires more than one seat for any reason (e.g., 
> because of obesity or a disability) can be required to pay for all of 
> the seats used.
>
> Section 382.117 - Service Animals
>
> 33.	What type of documentation are carriers permitted to require as a
> condition of permitting a service animal to travel on a flight segment 
> scheduled to take 8 hours or more?
>
> Answer: The carrier may require documentation that the animal will not 
> need to relieve itself during the expected duration of the flight or 
> that the animal can relieve itself in a way that does not create a 
> health or sanitation issue on the flight.  Examples of documentation a 
> passenger could provide include either a written statement from a 
> veterinarian, a signed statement from the passenger containing the 
> procedures that he/she employs to prevent the animal from having to 
> relieve itself (e.g., limitation on the provision of food and water) 
> and an assurance that the use of these procedures has prevented the 
> animal from relieving itself for a period similar to that of the 
> planned duration of the flight, or a signed statement with photographs 
> or other illustrations of the animal's ability to relieve itself 
> without posing a health or sanitation problem (e.g., the use of a
passenger-provided absorbent plastic-backed pad).
>
> 34.	May carriers require documentation that an animal accompanying a
> passenger with a disability is a service animal?
>
> Answer: Generally no, except in limited circumstances as discussed below.
> Unless a foreign carrier has received a conflict of laws waiver 
> permitting the carrier to impose such a requirement, or the carrier 
> finds that the verbal assurances of the passenger are not credible and 
> there are no other indications of the animal's status such as a 
> harness, tag or vest, the airline may not require such documentation.  
> Carriers are permitted to require documentation for emotional support 
> animals and psychiatric service animals.
>
> 35.	What conditions may carriers impose on the transport of service
> dogs?
>
> Answer: Carriers must transport all service dogs (e.g., guide dogs, 
> seizure alert dogs, etc.) as long as safety and animal health requirements
are met.
>
>
> 36.	Must carriers accept emotional support and psychiatric support
> animals in the aircraft cabin?
>
> Answer:  U.S. carriers must accept any emotional support or 
> psychiatric service animal in the aircraft cabin consistent with 
> applicable safety and animal health requirements and ensure that its 
> foreign code share partners do the same on covered flights with 
> respect to passengers traveling under the U.S. carrier's code.  
> Foreign carriers must accept any emotional support or psychiatric 
> service dog in the aircraft cabin consistent with applicable safety and
animal health requirements on covered flights.
>
> 37.	What should airline personnel do if a passenger with a disability is
> accompanied in the airplane cabin by a service animal that does not 
> fit in the space immediately in front of the passenger and there is no 
> other seat in the cabin with sufficient space to safely accommodate the
animal?
>
> Answer: If a service animal does not fit in the space immediately in 
> front of the accompanying passenger with a disability and there is no 
> other seat with sufficient space to safely accommodate the animal and 
> its partner (i.e., user), there are several options to consider for 
> accommodating the service animal in the cabin in the same class of 
> service.  The carrier should speak with other passengers to find a 
> passenger in an adjacent seat who is willing to share foot space with 
> the animal, or a passenger in a seat adjacent to a location where the 
> service animal can be accommodated (e.g., in the space behind the last 
> row of seats) or adjacent to an empty seat, who is willing to exchange 
> seats with the service animal's partner.  As noted in the preamble to 
> our rule, there are probably no circumstances in which the purchase of 
> a second seat would be necessary to accommodate the service animal.  
> If a class of service on a flight is totally filled, there would not 
> be any seat available for purchase.  If the class of service had even 
> one middle seat unoccupied, the passenger with a service animal could 
> be seated next to the vacant seat.  It is likely that even a large 
> animal (e.g., Great Dane) could use some of the floor space of the 
> vacant seat, making any further purchase by the passenger unnecessary.  
> Only if there is no alternative available to enable the passenger to 
> travel with the service animal in the cabin on that flight should the 
> carrier offer options such as transporting the service animal in the 
> cargo hold or transportation on a later flight with more room.  When 
> transportation on a later flight is offered, carriers are strongly 
> encouraged, but not required by Part 382, to allow any passenger who
wishes to rebook on a different flight to the same destination and on the
same airline to do so at the same fare.
>
> 38.	If a carrier determines that a service animal cannot accompany a
> passenger with a disability in the cabin due to a behavior problem on 
> the part of the animal that may result in a direct threat to the 
> health or safety of others or a fundamental alteration in service, 
> what should the carrier do?
>
> Answer: The carrier should first permit the passenger to try available 
> means of mitigating the problem (e.g., muzzling a barking service dog) 
> before deciding to exclude the service animal from the cabin.  If 
> those means are not successful, the carrier may follow its company 
> policy on pets because the animal has shown that it has not been
successfully trained to function
> as a service animal in public settings.   Whenever the airline decides not
> to accept an animal for travel as a service animal, the airline must 
> provide the passenger a written explanation of its decision within 10 
> calendar days of the incident.
>
> 39.	 If a carrier determines that a service animal cannot accompany a
> disabled passenger in the cabin and the passenger refuses to allow the 
> animal to be transported in the cargo hold and requests instead to be 
> rebooked on a later flight, must the carrier do so without additional 
> charge?
>
> Answer: If an airline cannot safely transport a service animal (e.g., 
> because it is too large to fit anywhere in the cabin), a carrier must 
> follow its nondiscriminatory contract of carriage provisions 
> applicable to the passenger's fare in determining how to best
re-accommodate such passengers.
> Although not required by Part 382, carriers are strongly encouraged to 
> allow any such passengers who wish to rebook on a different flight to 
> the same destination and on the same airline to do so at the same fare.
>
>
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tami Jarvis
> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 9:10 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Disabled veteran kicked off US Airways plane, 
> refused to put service dog on floor
>
> I think on this one the airline was in the right.
>
> Wouldn't this be covered by the Air Carrier Access Act (ACAA)?
>
> Just for grins, can any frequent flyers or legal eagles comment on 
> whether there is anything specific in the ACAA about having the 
> service dog in the seat?
>
> Unsecured, the dog would pose a direct threat to the health and safety 
> of others in the event of turbulence or worse. Bouncing around the 
> cabin wouldn't do the dog any good, either. /shudder/ If the dog were 
> secured in the seat, is there a rule against that under the ACAA?
>
> Just curious! No plans to put my dog in the seat, although she has 
> mentioned on at least one flight that she thought it was the best 
> place for her. I let her go on thinking that from the floor under the 
> seat. /lol/
>
> Tami
>
> On 09/06/2013 05:58 PM, Margo Downey and Arrow wrote:
>> Oh, I think U S air did the right thing.
>>
>> Margoa nd Arrow
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray
>> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 8:40 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Disabled veteran kicked off US Airways plane, 
>> refused to put service dog on floor
>>
>> Oh, I think he landed in the media because of his interpretation. How 
>> many people would actually try to have the dog ride in the seat? 
>> Maybe more than I think, but either those folk don't know the rules, 
>> he wasn't all together, or he was banking on the ignorance of the 
>> employees. That would not be too hard to bank on either. He just lost 
>> out on that one. I'd say he came out pretty well though with a free 
>> night in the hotel  as a result of his activities.
>>
>> xo
>>
>> On Sep 6, 2013, at 7:19 PM, Aleeha Dudley 
>> <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm going to state my honest opinion here and say the airline was in 
>>> the right here. I agree that the dog should have been on the floor 
>>> of the aircraft. It doesn't seem right that this passenger is using 
>>> his disability and service to this country as an excuse for having 
>>> the dog on a seat rather than the floor. In fact, he isn't being 
>>> denied entry to the plane, but the airline is merely asking him to 
>>> obey the guidelines issued by the same act this gentleman claims, 
>>> and quite accurately so, gives him the right to have the dog. Just 
>>> the fact that he speaks untruths so loudly landed him a spot in the 
>>> media, which is quite disturbing.
>>> Aleeha and Dallas
>>>
>>> On 9/6/13, Ginger Kutsch <GingerKutsch at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> Disabled veteran kicked off US Airways plane, refused to put 
>>>> service dog on floor
>>>>
>>>> Sep 05, 2013 8:46 PM EDT
>>>>
>>>> By FOX 10 News - Staff Report
>>>>
>>>> http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/23348254/2013/09/05/disabled-war-
>>>> v
>>>> e
>>>> teran-k
>>>> icked-off-us-airways-plane
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A newly released video has put valley-based US Airways in a tough
>> position.
>>>> A Vietnam vet with a service dog got into a heated discussion with 
>>>> a flight attendant and then was escorted off the plane for security
>> reasons.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Video: "No! I'd appreciate if you'd get the hell off this ground 
>>>> and get where we're going!"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Emotions ran high onboard a US Airways flight from Phoenix to El 
>>>> Paso. This video has gone viral.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "I'm sorry folks but I've earned the right to have this service 
>>>> animal because of my service to this country in Vietnam. I am 100 
>>>> percent disabled, I have a service dog because of it and everyone 
>>>> has to obey the ADA laws except this airline! So I'm sorry but I'm 
>>>> not budging!"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This passenger wants his service dog, a golden retriever, to remain 
>>>> seated on the empty seat next to him.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A US Airways spokesman said the rules are pretty clear. Service 
>>>> animals are to remain on the ground and under the seat in front of you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "If the aircraft were to experience something in the air and it 
>>>> needs to evacuate you don't want that animal to be in the way of 
>>>> people getting off the aircraft," says US Airways spokesman John
> McDonald.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> McDonald says there was also the safety of other passengers at risk
> here.
>>>> The man told airport personnel he suffered from PTSD. They worried 
>>>> he would get even more upset in the air.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "We had had conversations to the customer trying to explain what 
>>>> was going on. And the captain was involved when the flight 
>>>> attendant wasn't able to resolve it and in fact, many of our 
>>>> captains are former military people, this is an issue we are very 
>>>> familiar with and unfortunately this gentleman's reaction was what 
>>>> resulted in the
>> incident."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The Saturday flight was delayed. US Airways says it handled the 
>>>> situation as best it could.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Airport police cited the man with trespassing and booked him on 
>>>> another flight.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There wasn't another flight out on Saturday, so the man was 
>>>> rebooked on Sunday flight. US Airways covered the cost for a hotel 
>>>> room for the
>> night.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993
>>>> %
>>>> 4
>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.
>>> c
>>> o
>>> m
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40ver
>> i
>> zon.ne
>> t
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tami%40poodlemutt.
>> c
>> om
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/gingerkutsch%40yaho
> o.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40waveca
> ble.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tami%40poodlemutt.c
> om
>

_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/wb2hww%40earthlink.net